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  • Growth and Grab

    Does Growth formally affect Grabbing in any way? One would think that being 30' tall would have an effect on such things, no?

  • #2
    Re: Growth and Grab

    Growth increases your Strength, therefore your Grab DC. Otherwise, well, you got longer reach.

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    • #3
      Re: Growth and Grab

      I don't remember about 3E, but 2E gave a modifier to grab based on size, larger was better.
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      • #4
        Re: Growth and Grab

        Originally posted by Inscribed View Post
        Growth increases your Strength, therefore your Grab DC. Otherwise, well, you got longer reach.
        Growth does not increase your Reach. You have to buy it separately. At 8 ranks it gives you +1 Speed, but other all bonuses are to STR/STA/Intimidation.

        Size is a factor in 2e. It is not in 3e.
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        • #5
          Re: Growth and Grab

          But Growth does increase Reach. It's an implied rule buried in Elongation that says Reach is based on one's size rank.

          Does anyone know of a design note as to why this rule about size and grabbing was changed from 2e to 3e? Has anyone played one way or the other to recommend how to play it? (I have a PC with a 30' tall powerhouse.)

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          • #6
            Re: Growth and Grab

            3E steamlined a lot of things. Grabbing was one of them

            In 2E it was Str bonus + attack bonus + supper-strength bonus + sized modifer + D20 for a grab check

            In 3E it is D20 + STR
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            • #7
              Re: Growth and Grab

              Edit.

              The Hero Handbook does not state that Reach is a part of Growth in any way, and Elongation doesn't state it either.

              BUT. If you look up Growth in the Size and Mass Power Profile, it does say it.

              Originally posted by Size and Mass, pg. 2
              Every 4 ranks adds 1 to your size rank (starting from rank 2 for normal human size) and adds 1 rank of Reach.
              Last edited by badpenny; 10-23-2014, 01:44 PM.
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              • #8
                Re: Growth and Grab

                Originally posted by badpenny View Post
                That's not what it says.



                That's it. You add the Elongation effect to your size rank. There's nothing there about increasing your size increases reach or gives you ranks of Elongation or anything else.

                2e, OTOH, does increase reach with size. But 3e does not without purchasing it separately.
                Strictly by the rules, I see your point. But I would happily ignore this in order to prevent the hidden "gotcha" cost to growing characters. "You're 100 feet tall but you can only reach 6 feet because you didn't spend one point on Elongation to actually reach longer than you even wanted to." It's a poorly constructed rule. I think the effect of ignoring it would come up infrequently enough to not matter.

                EDIT: Also, I couldn't find a single example of a growing character in the DC books with Elongation. So Colossal Boy only has a 6' reach.
                Last edited by drkrash; 10-23-2014, 01:50 PM. Reason: Added

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                • #9
                  Re: Growth and Grab

                  See my edit above.
                  Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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                  • #10
                    Re: Growth and Grab

                    Originally posted by badpenny View Post
                    See my edit above.
                    I suspect that this was intended to be more specific somewhere in the Hero Handbook and never made it for some reason.

                    In any case, there is no benefit to grabbing, which was my original question.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Growth and Grab

                      Well from DC Heroes Handbook:

                      Elongation ... grants a +1 bonus to grab checks per rank
                      (limited by PL).

                      So along with Badpenny's

                      "Every 4 ranks adds 1 to your size rank (starting from rank –2 for normal human size) and adds 1 rank of Reach."

                      Growth would in fact impact your Grab checks.

                      +1 for every 4 ranks of Growth.

                      Though looking at what I wrote now I need to check Reach not Elongation....

                      Edit: Oops Reach is not Elongation nvm though I could see giving the same bonus, it is not explicitly implied.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Growth and Grab

                        Originally posted by kariggi View Post
                        Well from DC Heroes Handbook:

                        Elongation ... grants a +1 bonus to grab checks per rank
                        (limited by PL).

                        So along with Badpenny's

                        "Every 4 ranks adds 1 to your size rank (starting from rank 2 for normal human size) and adds 1 rank of Reach."

                        Growth would in fact impact your Grab checks.

                        +1 for every 4 ranks of Growth.

                        Though looking at what I wrote now I need to check Reach not Elongation....

                        Edit: Oops Reach is not Elongation nvm though I could see giving the same bonus, it is not explicitly implied.
                        I may just use this as a house rule. It's hardly a game breaker and it makes sense.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Growth and Grab

                          They do go into some additional rules for Size changers in the Size & Mass Power Profile, although nothing specific to Grabbing. Relative size can give circumstance bonuses, and attackers who are 3 size ranks more than their targets can treat their attacks like Area Effects with a radius of their Size-3.

                          EDIT: I prefer to use Growth as a guideline and not as an effect in most cases, building a PC to the right size and strength using Elongation, STR, STA, Increased Mass (as Limited STR to resist Grabs/Trips/Lifts/KB) and Complication: Bigness. It's less abusive and easier to work with PL, if potentially more expensive.
                          Last edited by JDRook; 10-23-2014, 06:48 PM.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Growth and Grab

                            Note that the bonus is listed with Elongation, but not with the Reach Advantage--and the note about Growth references Reach.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Growth and Grab

                              Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
                              Note that the bonus is listed with Elongation, but not with the Reach Advantage--and the note about Growth references Reach.
                              Understood. But like I said above, as a house rule, it's hardly a game-breaker. A guy that's 30' tall gets a whopping +10% effectiveness over his 6' opponent.

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