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  • Pain Manipulation ideas?

    One of my players is developing a sort of Wolverine clone, but with less Regeneration and no adamantium skeleton. For his resistance to damage, I gave him a little Protection defined as layers of muscle and a little more defined as Resistance to Pain.

    Two questions:
    1) It is legal to have two of the same powers (i.e., Protection) that stack but with different descriptors, right?

    2) The player said he wanted to be able to transform the pain from getting hurt into some sort of bonus. But I'm at a loss with what to do with this. The simplest method seems to be to use Absorption from the book at a low level, but I'm not sure what it should add to. Are Enhanced Traits from Absorption subject to PL limits? I'd be happy to use a more complicated power if it were interesting, but my imagination and system mastery are failing me here.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

  • #2
    Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

    1) yes

    2) Yes, stats and abilites boosted by Absorption (or Boost) are still subject to PL. It is, however, up to you as the GM to determine how much flexibility you want to give on that since you are talking low levels of Absorption anyway. Also remember that the character is probably not at PL cap on EVERYTHING and that some things are not capped by PL (movement speed, immunities, senses, etc.)
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    • #3
      Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

      Add the Absorption bonus to Strength, up to your PL cap. Have it Linked to the second Protection Value.

      Here's a question: Which Protection level kicks in first?

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      • #4
        Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

        Originally posted by Chris Brady View Post
        Add the Absorption bonus to Strength, up to your PL cap. Have it Linked to the second Protection Value.

        Here's a question: Which Protection level kicks in first?
        Does that matter? I assumed they'd both just add to Toughness. What would the effect be of Linking Absorption and Protection?

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        • #5
          Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

          What about this:

          Pain Manipulation: Enhanced Trait: Speed 2 (Fades, Reaction, Only occurs if he suffers 2 degrees of Damage; Enhanced Trait: Multiattack on STR and STR-based Damage (Fades, Reaction, Only occurs if he suffers 2 degrees of Damage and initial attack was at least Damage 8) (4)

          The 1st part of the power costs 1 point and the 2nd part costs 3 points (I counted each of the limiting effects separately and the STR + STR-based Damage was a total of 8, for a cost of 2.66).

          I wasn't sure if you could make an Extra into an Enhanced Trait by itself.

          If this is legal, I assumed that the Fade would mean that he loses both Speed and Multiattack each round, and that the Multiattack Fade would mean that he can use the Extra at progressively lower totals of STR+Damage each round.

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          • #6
            Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

            Originally posted by drkrash View Post
            Does that matter? I assumed they'd both just add to Toughness. What would the effect be of Linking Absorption and Protection?
            There really is no difference so long as there are no powers that depend on ordering, I suppose. And I don't think there really would be any linking there... maybe grouping them under the same descriptor?
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            • #7
              Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

              Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
              There really is no difference so long as there are no powers that depend on ordering, I suppose. And I don't think there really would be any linking there... maybe grouping them under the same descriptor?
              Thanks. I wouldn't group them under the same descriptor because they are actually different.

              Can anyone tell me if the above constructed power is legal?

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              • #8
                Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                Originally posted by drkrash View Post
                What about this:

                Pain Manipulation: Enhanced Trait: Speed 2 (Fades, Reaction, Only occurs if he suffers 2 degrees of Damage; Enhanced Trait: Multiattack on STR and STR-based Damage (Fades, Reaction, Only occurs if he suffers 2 degrees of Damage and initial attack was at least Damage 8) (4)

                The 1st part of the power costs 1 point and the 2nd part costs 3 points (I counted each of the limiting effects separately and the STR + STR-based Damage was a total of 8, for a cost of 2.66).

                I wasn't sure if you could make an Extra into an Enhanced Trait by itself.

                If this is legal, I assumed that the Fade would mean that he loses both Speed and Multiattack each round, and that the Multiattack Fade would mean that he can use the Extra at progressively lower totals of STR+Damage each round.
                There's no need to change the action to Reaction. Neither of those powers needs to be used during someone else's turn. I think I would leave off Fades too and just have the limit make the powers only available when certain amounts of damage have been taken. Then the powers will go away "naturally" when the damage is healed.

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                • #9
                  Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                  Originally posted by Shock View Post
                  There's no need to change the action to Reaction. Neither of those powers needs to be used during someone else's turn. I think I would leave off Fades too and just have the limit make the powers only available when certain amounts of damage have been taken. Then the powers will go away "naturally" when the damage is healed.
                  He's modeling it after absorption, which the book stats as Enhanced Trait X, Fades, Reaction
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                  • #10
                    Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                    Originally posted by drkrash View Post
                    Thanks. I wouldn't group them under the same descriptor because they are actually different.

                    Can anyone tell me if the above constructed power is legal?
                    No, they're not mechanically different. They give the same benefit with a different 'descriptor'. Now, if the Pain Tolerance version was Linked to his Absorption, there would be a reason to split the Protection. But if it doesn't actually do anything differently, why not just combine the names?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                      Originally posted by Chris Brady View Post
                      No, they're not mechanically different. They give the same benefit with a different 'descriptor'. Now, if the Pain Tolerance version was Linked to his Absorption, there would be a reason to split the Protection. But if it doesn't actually do anything differently, why not just combine the names?
                      Not sure I understand. My point is that they have different names because they *are* different powers: one is "Covered in Muscle" and the other one is "Unaffected by Pain." I suppose they could be combined into "Tough as Nails" or something similar, but the descriptors *are* intended to be different. If there is no rules issue, I don't care whether it occupies one line or two on the character sheet.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                        Originally posted by digitalangel View Post
                        He's modeling it after absorption, which the book stats as Enhanced Trait X, Fades, Reaction
                        Even with Absorption, the only reason to make it Reaction has been because of the self-heal version, or one that feeds a defense. For something that feeds anything else, there's no practical difference.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                          Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
                          Even with Absorption, the only reason to make it Reaction has been because of the self-heal version, or one that feeds a defense. For something that feeds anything else, there's no practical difference.
                          Interesting point. I think the advantage of Reaction is that the enhanced power would keep refilling automatically every time you were hit (back up to its limit). No?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                            Enhanced Trait is normally Sustained, maning it takes a Standard action to activate and then a free action every round to maintain. Not having to spend the Standard action to active it and then not needing a free action to maintain it is what Reaction is giving you. Without Reaction it is useless if you are Controlled/Unconscious/Incapacitated/Asleep/...
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                            • #15
                              Re: Pain Manipulation ideas?

                              Originally posted by digitalangel View Post
                              Enhanced Trait is normally Sustained, maning it takes a Standard action to activate and then a free action every round to maintain. Not having to spend the Standard action to active it and then not needing a free action to maintain it is what Reaction is giving you. Without Reaction it is useless if you are Controlled/Unconscious/Incapacitated/Asleep/...
                              Got it. This old Champions GM is still trying to re-wire his brain.

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