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[3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

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  • Bladewind
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Tack on a radius tactile sense and a triggered effect instead of reaction and you're on your way...

    Essentially if Spiderman also had Nightcrawler's powers... his Spider Sense is then linked to a triggered teleport. The exact cost and mechanic of doing this starts to get dicey, but it can be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • AverageJoe
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Seems like it could be pretty easy to neutralize such a character. A hidden observer with a sniper rifle would probably do the trick. Or maybe use feints to herd the teleporter into say, a minefield. Or maybe even another teleporter.

    -Average

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  • Bladewind
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by overshadow View Post
    My only issue of this is that by RAW, this modifier changes an effect’s required action from a standard or free to a reaction, occurring automatically when a specific triggering event occurs. Teléport is supposed to be a move action BUT I just see now that it's perhaps move has been forgotten because Reaction begins with the following sentence : "Each effect has a default action required to use it: standard, free, or none (for permanent effects)." Move is not mentionned.
    You are correct, but I think that`s a typo or omission.

    Consider the counter modifier "increased action."

    Using an effect requires one of the following types of actions: standard, move, free, or reaction. Each increase in the required action from that effect’s base action type (free to move, for example) is a –1 cost per rank modifier.
    And the benefit vs cost of Standard vs Move is kind of out of balance. So spending an extra to go from Standard to Move is overkill.

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  • Squirrelly-sama
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    A couple things to note:
    1) It's a reaction, meaning the user can't control it, so you could likely use the effect to herd the user or stop them from being able to maintain a tactical position. With the right descriptor you could even feint them into fleeing.
    2) It's against what the user thinks could be an attack, again that leads to fainting, but could also count as just a threatening action or other effects. He'll probably dodge the Empowerment Beam from a teammate in the midst of dodging dodging magic rain.

    Easy ways to get around it:
    Feinting, either faking an attack to the point that they turn it off out of frustration, or a GM might decide that a normal feint leaves the character unable to perceive the attack is coming.
    Tag-teaming, basically two characters attack from different angles, or one attacks from hiding, to be able to sneak attack the teleporter.

    Leave a comment:


  • overshadow
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    My only issue of this is that by RAW, this modifier changes an effect’s required action from a standard or free to a reaction, occurring automatically when a specific triggering event occurs. Teléport is supposed to be a move action BUT I just see now that it's perhaps move has been forgotten because Reaction begins with the following sentence : "Each effect has a default action required to use it: standard, free, or none (for permanent effects)." Move is not mentionned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darkdreamer
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
    Reaction Teleport is not out of line compared to numerous other powerful defenses that can be built.
    I don't think I agree with that unless you're also talking about some other tricks that tend to be problematic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Batgirl III
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
    Again, matters of degree matter.
    Well, obviously specific cases will rely on the specific conditions. But in the superhero genre in general, one should expect heroes to have very impressive defenses against a wide variety of attacks.

    Reaction Teleport is not out of line compared to numerous other powerful defenses that can be built.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darkdreamer
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
    Can't attack that which you cannot see. Invisibility will thus "ignore" lots of attacks because they simply aren't targeted by them. The Invisible Woman and Predator are prime examples.
    Obviously incorrect, since even invisible characters will often reveal their presence one way or another. It actually requires a very specific build of Concealment to be truly impossible to attack; the vast majority can be attacked by someone with a Readied attack, just with a penalty.


    You can hit an invulnerable character as often as you want, but if he has sufficiently high Impervious Toughness, it doesn't matter. He'll "ignore" lots of attacks just because they cannot hurt him. Superman, the Blob, and hundreds of more characters are examples of this.
    But there are a large variety of attacks that don't care about Impervious, too, not just ones with one specific extra. Anything with Penetrating will get something through unless there's a horrific power mismatch, anything strong enough in the first place, and any Affliction. The frequency isn't even vaguely comparable. This is particularly true with 3e Impervious, but even in 2e you had to work to find an opponent who wasn't a minion who actually had no way to hurt an Imprevious target.

    You can hit and hurt a character with high Regeneration, but his rate of healing let's him "ignore" you. Much like his cousin, the Honey Badger, good old Wolverine just don't give a snkict.
    Again, does nothing against Affliction, and requires a particularly high Regeneration before its reliably true even for damage, in excess of 10 ranks.

    Superheroes with all sorts of concepts and builds can ignore or avoid a lot of attacks. It's just part of the genre.
    Again, matters of degree matter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Batgirl III
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Can't attack that which you cannot see. Invisibility will thus "ignore" lots of attacks because they simply aren't targeted by them. The Invisible Woman and Predator are prime examples.

    You can hit an invulnerable character as often as you want, but if he has sufficiently high Impervious Toughness, it doesn't matter. He'll "ignore" lots of attacks just because they cannot hurt him. Superman, the Blob, and hundreds of more characters are examples of this.

    You can hit and hurt a character with high Regeneration, but his rate of healing let's him "ignore" you. Much like his cousin, the Honey Badger, good old Wolverine just don't give a snkict.

    Superheroes with all sorts of concepts and builds can ignore or avoid a lot of attacks. It's just part of the genre.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darkdreamer
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by badpenny View Post
    I don't know what kinds of games you play in, but look through a Freedom/Emerald City source book and you have plenty of characters with lots of abilities like these.
    I've got a lot of the first, and I disagree. Subtle powers attackers and those with Concealment are not common, and the only types who typically have high Stealth are skillmonkeys, which are far from the majority.

    The perception checks I mentioned are the ones generated by Subtle 1 (DC 20) or by an attacker using Stealth. There is no Perception check needed to attack and I never said that. What I did say was that if the teleporter couldn't perceive the attack, the Reaction trigger isn't going to activate if it's "when attacked." It's too broad. It needs to be specific like "when touched." That's objective.
    "When attacked" is one of the examples listed under Reaction. In fact, its listed in the same line as "when touched." So you may think its too broad, and I may, but the book doesn't seem to agree so we can't expect people using it in the wild to do so.


    This follows "what is an attack?" I'd argue that the Perception-range attack wouldn't even qualify under the "when attacked" trigger, because you have no chance at any defense--you only resist. If the Reaction trigger was when "mentally attacked" you have an objective trigger again: the presence of a mental descriptor on the attack. This is why for things like Nullify/Weaken you have not only the Broad modifier but Simultaneous. You have to pay for overly broad descriptors and the same is true for [Reaction] triggers.
    Except, as I said, the book does not suggest such. It does indicate you have to watch the degree of utility, but does not in any way discuss a surcharge for a more broad trigger, and "when attacked" is one of the examples given.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darkdreamer
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
    Yep, it would avoid the majority of attack from the majority of opponents. So does Invisibility, Intangibility, sufficent ranks of Impervious Toughness... Or any of a half-dozen other powers.

    It's a superhero game. That's par for the course.
    I'll give you Intangibility, but I don't agree with the rest. Invisibility makes it more difficult to attack, but its not automatic, and plenty of attackers have non-Toughness attacks. So I'm afraid since I don't buy the premise, I don't buy the conclusion. To me there's a significant difference in degree here.

    Leave a comment:


  • badpenny
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by JDRook View Post
    +1, although I personally think Teleport is overpowered at low ranks and underpowered at high ranks in much the same way as Flight. 1 rank and you can travel through most barriers as long as you can target your destination (kind of a limited Permeate 3) and using Precise allows the 'porter to escape any Grab, bindings or essentially any entrapment descriptor (worth 10p of Immunity easily). I personally like Nite Owl's houserule (used on NO's version of your Doctor Marvel (http://roninarmy.com/threads/766-Bat...ll=1#post32173) of frontloading Flight cost as a rank 3 Movement Effect and Linking it to Speed, and I think Teleport should be treated similarly.
    So the Movement effect lets you fly and the linked Speed determines your speed. For Teleportation, the distance.

    That's a very interesting idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • badpenny
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
    There are broad swaths of characters who have none of those abilities other than basic Stealth capability; in fact I'd bet once you get outside of specialists, most are.
    I don't know what kinds of games you play in, but look through a Freedom/Emerald City source book and you have plenty of characters with lots of abilities like these.

    And I seriously doubt most GMs are requiring a visible attacker within most ranges to make perception attacks just to see that's happening, since it would mean most people would be left with reduced defense value.
    The perception checks I mentioned are the ones generated by Subtle 1 (DC 20) or by an attacker using Stealth. There is no Perception check needed to attack and I never said that. What I did say was that if the teleporter couldn't perceive the attack, the Reaction trigger isn't going to activate if it's "when attacked." It's too broad. It needs to be specific like "when touched." That's objective.

    And its not even clear to me that regular Perception range attacks will necessarily work, since you don't get to reposition your attack because your target isn't where you think it is.
    This follows "what is an attack?" I'd argue that the Perception-range attack wouldn't even qualify under the "when attacked" trigger, because you have no chance at any defense--you only resist. If the Reaction trigger was when "mentally attacked" you have an objective trigger again: the presence of a mental descriptor on the attack. This is why for things like Nullify/Weaken you have not only the Broad modifier but Simultaneous. You have to pay for overly broad descriptors and the same is true for [Reaction] triggers.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDRook
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
    Yep, it would avoid the majority of attack from the majority of opponents. So does Invisibility, Intangibility, sufficent ranks of Impervious Toughness... Or any of a half-dozen other powers.

    It's a superhero game. That's par for the course.
    +1, although I personally think Teleport is overpowered at low ranks and underpowered at high ranks in much the same way as Flight. 1 rank and you can travel through most barriers as long as you can target your destination (kind of a limited Permeate 3) and using Precise allows the 'porter to escape any Grab, bindings or essentially any entrapment descriptor (worth 10p of Immunity easily). I personally like Nite Owl's houserule (used on NO's version of your Doctor Marvel (http://roninarmy.com/threads/766-Bat...ll=1#post32173) of frontloading Flight cost as a rank 3 Movement Effect and Linking it to Speed, and I think Teleport should be treated similarly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Batgirl III
    replied
    Re: [3E] Power Profile: Teleportation Power Question

    Yep, it would avoid the majority of attack from the majority of opponents. So does Invisibility, Intangibility, sufficent ranks of Impervious Toughness... Or any of a half-dozen other powers.

    It's a superhero game. That's par for the course.

    Leave a comment:

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