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  • Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

    Sorry if I'm not putting this one in quite the right place. While it is a GM and player question it's also related to the very special environment of this board rather than a GM question in general.

    Over the last few years, I've seen a lot of games come and go. Yet, amazingly, some have real longevity. There's the two week curse too. Some of them just don't work out, sometimes the GM flakes, other times the players disappear.

    In any case, I've become a bit discouraged lately as a GM/player and reader. Cool ideas, creative juices flowing.. and it goes to waste.

    Anybody have an advice on how to run a game with longevity? On the other side, any suggestions on picking games that'll last?

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

    For running long games, dedication and proper player selection does the trick for me. When casting, I cast two or three core reliable players who get on well and have them help with the other selections. Once the game starts, I do all I can to keep it going such as recasting or changing the tone within limits if the players aren't on board fully. Part of dedication is also working to setup scenarios players can run with. If your players need more guidance for what to do its more work, but can be fun still. As much as I hate to acknowledge it, reputation on the boards plays a role in my casting since my style is more freeform and attempts to incorporate the PCs fluff in a clever fashion.

    Getting in to long lasting games is a gamble. I try to use the GMs past and what I have seen on the boards of them, but that can be iffy as well. Another aspect is dedication as a player. If the gm has to do all the work they get burned out. As a player you need to lead by example sometime and hope the others follow.
    [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/46-mrdents-menagerie-of-characters]My characters past and present[/url]

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    • #3
      Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

      Honestly, I couldn't tell you anything specifically that would help. Personally I've done everything from over casting to posting what I would like from players as posting rates and it really doesn't seem to help. You could simply only cast those players who you see on the boards consistently, but that locks out some potentially dynamic new players.

      I will say that casting is my least favorite part of any campaign. Oftentimes I run into issues with players I would love to have, but balk at games with large numbers in the cast (which is unfortunately one of the few sure ways to save a game from dying of lack of participation). Other times I don't seem to end up on the same page as my players or perhaps my GM when it comes to the game.

      At the end of the day, my usual strategy is to try to stack the game with players I know I can depend on, then leave a couple spots open for newer players or players I've never cast in a game.

      Personally, I've never had a game go longer than 2 1/2 years (and most don't make 6 months), but I'm in a game that is approaching its 5 year anniversary with the majority of the original cast still playing and only a couple replacement players over that entire span, so it really just comes down to the right game, with the right GM and the right group of players.

      After over 10 games started and at least 10 failed I haven't come up with any sure formula, except to shrug it off and move on.

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      • #4
        Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

        I have never run a game on these boards but my preference as a player is games that incorporate player backgrounds into the story. I have seen games die often due to player and/or GM absences. Once there is a prolonged absence, it is often difficult for the game to regain momentum. One problem I have seen in a few games is a slow build up to the characters doing anything useful to the story. A certain amount of meet and greet/team building in the beginning is expected but I have seen some games stretch that out too long and players begin to lose interest.

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        • #5
          Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

          There's luck involved: I was in a game that seemed to be going great, with players who were into it and who were being dedicated, and the GM suddenly burned out. They managed to close it off with a finale, but they were originally planning for it to go longer.

          So I'd say unless you've go prophetic powers that there's nothing you can do to guarantee a game won't suddenly shut down. Go in with everyone understanding that and maybe you'll feel a bit less disappointed should it happen.

          (You might also try pitching something light with no background other than what the players come up with. Collaborate to set up characters and the world. At least then if the game itself flounders early you had some fun riffing.)

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          • #6
            Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

            Originally posted by Horsenhero View Post
            Honestly, I couldn't tell you anything specifically that would help. Personally I've done everything from over casting to posting what I would like from players as posting rates and it really doesn't seem to help. You could simply only cast those players who you see on the boards consistently, but that locks out some potentially dynamic new players.

            I will say that casting is my least favorite part of any campaign. Oftentimes I run into issues with players I would love to have, but balk at games with large numbers in the cast (which is unfortunately one of the few sure ways to save a game from dying of lack of participation). Other times I don't seem to end up on the same page as my players or perhaps my GM when it comes to the game.

            At the end of the day, my usual strategy is to try to stack the game with players I know I can depend on, then leave a couple spots open for newer players or players I've never cast in a game.
            Traditionally with the Crinosverse games I've run I've tried to do just that. Four or five regulars, people I know I can finish the game out with if it comes to it, and then one or two new players. Sometimes you get people that just don't work out. Sometimes they flake on you, sometimes things come up and they have to bow out, sometimes there are personality conflicts. And then sometimes you find someone great who then goes on to be in tons of other games with you.

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            • #7
              Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

              Personally, I've never been a GM on the forums. So I can't really offer advice on that end. But with regards to being a player? Well, sometimes I guess it takes persistence to post even when other players aren't. I mean, knowing the GM's history helps a lot. It's never a true guarantee of a game being long-lasting, but it's somewhat helpful.

              And as a personal aside, I've always considered the Crinoverse's longevity to be due to the fact that it's so ludicrously insane and unwieldly that it'd require a special sort of madness to comprehend. That, or a level of experience with gaming that I certainly do not have. Either way, the people that sort of setting attracts are the sort who are naturally predisposed towards that sort of game and can actually keep up with it. I've read several of those IC threads, and have come to the conclusion that I would simply never be able to keep up with that sort of game, despite the fact that I'm a generally frequent poster/gamer. No offense to Crinoverse players, but you guys operate on a whole different level than I'm on...

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              • #8
                Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                None taken.

                It's worth pointing that Crinoverse games, by and large (there are exceptions-not every one is a years long, hundreds of pages campaign, some fizzle out like any other game) require, more than a certain kind of player, a certain kind of posting style. In Project Freedom or New Vindies (long lasting games) I would post longish, multi paragraph replies.

                In Crinoverse games, posts are typically much shorter, frequently just one-liners. it would be interesting to see which is actually longer in a single text document, New Vindies or Avengers. Not that I'd do that to myself.
                [I]Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart![/I]

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                • #9
                  Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                  I think I agree with what most of the rest said, as a GM, pick your players for durability. Perhaps not the greatest build, perhaps a headache to incorporate the concept in the game, but if you can get a dedicated player to play the character he wants to play, you got (most certainly) a permanent character. My number one rule is that everyone should play what they want (given the limits on the game setting of course.) That's another reason why I don't pose any objections when a player's love for their character dies out and want to try something new.

                  I have run several games, most of them perished, some of them got to an ending, as it was meant to, and some are ongoing. I usually find that I have times of great productivity as a GM, I tend to give pictures, make a separate thread with tons of info on characters and places, so much players have a hard time keeping my peace. Then I slow down, almost hitting the break. I perhaps forget to update, a week goes on, no one posts. Then, another surge. I'm lucky to have very understanding players on Fall of Metropolis, although I have lost a few already. However I can promise to keep it going as long as I have players at my side. Perhaps knowing that motivates the players to don't give up, its something I give for granted, but such compromise might inspire players I think.

                  My two cents.
                  [B][SIZE=3]心のコスモ を 抱きしめて 遥かな 銀河 へ[/SIZE][/B]

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                  • #10
                    Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                    Originally posted by Arthur Eld View Post
                    In Crinoverse games, posts are typically much shorter, frequently just one-liners.
                    Yeah, I don't think I'd last in a game where people mostly do long posts. I hardly last when Crinoverse games do it.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                      Originally posted by Arthur Eld View Post
                      It's worth pointing that Crinoverse games, by and large (there are exceptions-not every one is a years long, hundreds of pages campaign, some fizzle out like any other game) require, more than a certain kind of player, a certain kind of posting style. In Project Freedom or New Vindies (long lasting games) I would post longish, multi paragraph replies.
                      Yeah, I've been in a few long running games and I'll admit that most of the games that were long running for me were with mostly the same group of players with a few people who tended to cycle in and out. In Project Freedom and Tattooedman's games our posts would be 4-5 paragraphs long, it was more like a group writing effort than anything else. The players took just as much ownership and pride in the games as the GM. Not everyone wants to write and play in this style. Over the years I've started up more than my fair share of failed games too, sometimes I take full credit for that failure well most of the time I'll take that full credit, and to be honest I don't always know why a game fails. I've seen it happen because of personality conflicts and differing expectations due to tone. Posting rate is important but it's influenced by a few different things. I know I've played in a few games where the characters, or attitudes of other players, I was with removed a certain amount of interest that I had in the game or even in my own character. That was one of the things that would influence my posting rate. If I'm playing with other characters that I find interesting, whose points of view I find interesting, then that's going to improve the amount of character interaction that my character will have with theirs.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                        Originally posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
                        Yeah, I don't think I'd last in a game where people mostly do long posts. I hardly last when Crinoverse games do it.
                        Well, the Crinosverse can have both. Some, with more limited posting time, put up longer posts detailing lots of things at once, others, with more time, put up numerous shorter responses, while some use a mix of rapid fire shorter posts combined with big important Tent Pole posts of importance.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                          Originally posted by Spectrum View Post
                          Sorry if I'm not putting this one in quite the right place. While it is a GM and player question it's also related to the very special environment of this board rather than a GM question in general.

                          Over the last few years, I've seen a lot of games come and go. Yet, amazingly, some have real longevity. There's the two week curse too. Some of them just don't work out, sometimes the GM flakes, other times the players disappear.

                          In any case, I've become a bit discouraged lately as a GM/player and reader. Cool ideas, creative juices flowing.. and it goes to waste.

                          Anybody have an advice on how to run a game with longevity?
                          What I say below, I say in good faith and with no intention to denigrate. Don't be offended!

                          I've seen some of your games around the boards, Spectrum, and I feel that, for a lack of a better word, you need to be a little more decisive. A GM is a leader in many ways, and you need to be able to make judgments, make rulings, and give the plot direction. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't listen to your players -- you should. But you should also have a vision for your game and the willingness to carry it out.

                          As an example, I remember one game you ran where a player asked you for a ruling on immunity. You responded with a lot of musing on how Immunity should be priced in a fantasy game, some request for input from the other players, but no ruling (which actually made the player quite angry -- you know who I'm talking about). I think that as GM, whose responsibility it is to interpret the rules in a fair and consistent way, you should've just made a ruling on the spot which seems reasonable to you, and if players disliked it then you can tweak it further.

                          Since you ask for advice, I offer my own. When I started my first game, I had zero experience as a GM, either online or at the tabletop. I'd never even read a comic book before. I had to learn everything from scratch. I prepared myself by reading almost every game on the old Game Room and thinking long and hard about what makes games fail, and I came up with these methods, which I've refined over time.

                          They may not work for you; they do work for me. I know they do because none of my games have ever died, I have never needed to recruit replacements, and only two players have ever left any of my games for any reason. (You can see my work here.)

                          I'm sorry for tooting my own horn, but I want to show you that one can run long-lived, successful play-by-post games, with no/minimal player dropout, and do it again and again reliably. And you can do it even as a new GM with no experience, as long as you avoid some common mistakes and take some precautions.


                          0. No rule shall be followed off a cliff. Use your judgment and ignore any or all of the following at your discretion as GM.

                          1. Only run the game you want to run. Don't run a game pitched by someone else. They also probably have a very specific vision of what sort of game they want, and it is unlikely that your effort will match theirs closely enough to make them happy; and if they quit, you may not feel motivated to keep the game goind. Don't run a poll to select what you want to run. You'll end up running a game that's your 2nd or 3rd choice, one you're not completely sold on in the first place (or you wouldn't have needed a poll to help you decide!), and you'll lose interest and quit. Don't run a game you feel the need to start an interest check for. If you start an interest check, you probably aren't really interested in the game; otherwise you would be prepared to sell your vision to others and drum up interest for your game.

                          It might seem noble to run a game that everyone wants desperately to play, but it never works out. Unless you enjoy the game, it will not last. Conversely, when you are really, really eager to run a game, your enthusiasm will shine through and it will show in your writing, and your players will be more interested as well.

                          Remember, running a game is a significant investment of time and effort. Not every idea is worth a game. Wait for the one that makes you go, "Guys, guys! I have an awesome idea. Sign up now!"


                          2. Wait at least 2 weeks before starting recruitment. When you first get the idea to start a game you are excited and fired up, which makes it hard to think about depressing questions like "What could go wrong with this game?" and "Will I still want to run this 6 months down the road?" and "Are these players really people I want to play with?". Wait 2 weeks and let the initial excitement die off a little. If you are still interested and thinking up new adventure ideas after 2 weeks, your interest might be of the long-lasting sort that can sustain a game for months and years, not the kind that fizzles out after the first combat. (By the way, this method works very well for avoiding impulse purchases as well. It's why so much marketing strategy is designed to get you to swipe the card before you walk out the door.)

                          Note that 2 weeks is the bare minimum. Sometimes, I'll 'date' ideas for months before committing to a game. Remember, you're looking for marriage, not a one-night stand.


                          3. In fact, don't run open recruitment. Open recruitment is a terrible way to select players. It's a competitive, zero-sum (i.e. if you get in, that means someone else doesn't) process for selecting players to play a cooperative storytelling game. People who are terrible to play with can submit exceptionally well-made character sheets. Just because a character looks suitable for the game on paper doesn't mean that it will be roleplayed in a manner fitting the game; conversely, in rare cases a character who doesn't look like a good fit at first glance can turn out to be acceptable after making sure the player understands the game's concept and pledges to work with it. The strength of a player's submission is meaningless. A good submission just means the player is good at writing character sheets, no more.

                          Judging people by their behavior during recruitment is also unreliable. Since open recruitment is competitive, people will hide behaviors they know are objectionable (unfair character builds, abusive playstyles, etc.) and make it harder to judge if they are really a good fit for the game. I know people who are chatty and helpful during recruitment, suggesting concepts and helping players tweak their builds, but once the game proper starts, all of that goes out the window. Instead, play in a few games, see which players you work well and have a great rapport with, research their post history to get a feel for their interests and conduct, invite them to a game and then have them make their characters together, like a tabletop group would.


                          4. Choose players, not characters. Many, many problems can be prevented or mitigated by just choosing the right players:

                          If you don't want players dropping out, then choose players who won't drop out easily.
                          If you don't want unfair play in your game, then choose players who are fair.
                          If you don't want inappropriate submissions, then choose players who want to play the same game you want to run.
                          If you don't want player conflict in your game, then choose players who get along with each other.

                          Attack the root of the problem, not the symptoms. Choose your players wisely and you are halfway to success.

                          You have a powerful tool with which to gauge a player's attitude and behavior called their post history. The first thing you should do when considering a player for your game is to use advanced search to bring up a list of all the games they have ever posted in.

                          On the new forums...

                          ...Which gives this.

                          On the old forums...

                          ...Which gives this.

                          From there, go into each thread and start reading. Look at how they roleplay, what type of characters they tend to play, and how they interact with fellow players. For each game they quit, find out why. PM their former GMs and fellow players and ask about their experiences with the player.

                          This is very time-consuming and tedious, but the great thing is you only have to do it once -- a good group lasts for years.

                          Your criteria for selection will vary depending on the game you plan to run. As an example I, personally, choose people who are:
                          1. Fair -- know how to restrain themselves, instead of trying to squeeze every ounce of power they can from the GM; do not make characters significantly more capable than those of other players. (Small differences are unavoidable.)
                          2. Tactful -- can state and defend their opinion in a disagreement without resorting to inflammatory, sarcastic, or patronizing language. (N.B. I fail this one badly. Don't pick me for your games.)
                          3. Committed -- do not drop out of games often; willing to stay and resolve problems instead of bailing; have a stable RL.
                          4. Cooperative -- help other characters shine instead of only being concerned with their own character; share the spotlight without being told to; know when to step back from the center of attention.
                          5. Trustworthy -- can be given great freedom and do not require much GM oversight. Do not need to be constantly held in check by the GM. I have a simple test to help you decide if you can trust a player. Ask yourself: "would I trust this person to play a character with Variable 20?" If the answer is 'no', don't pick them.
                          6. Willing to suffer setback -- see the occasional failure as opportunities for roleplay and character development, not something to be avoided; welcome the occasional setback (e.g. being defeated, being considered unattractive/less attractive, being fooled, being wrong in an argument, etc.)



                          They must also have:
                          1. Similar schedules -- otherwise, the slow ones will get constantly left behind, get discouraged and quit; and the fast ones will have nothing to respond to, and grow bored and quit.
                          2. Similar interests -- must want roughly the same things as regards tone, genre, level of seriousness, amount of focus on mechanics vs rp, amount of combat vs rp, etc.


                          Creativity, writing ability and roleplaying ability are nice if you can get them, but not a requirement. System mastery, age and experience are not relevant.

                          You won't agree with my criteria for players, which is natural. Every GM wants different things in a player and your requirements will differ based on the type of game you want to run (e.g. if you want to run a game where the players are more proactive, then you should choose players who often take the initiative to move the story along in their games). However, the principle of choosing people suitable for the game you want to run, based on their post history and demonstrated behavior (not only behavior during recruitment), is universal.


                          5. Choose groups, not individuals. It's not good enough that players individually meet the above requirements. They also need to be able to get along with each other. Sometimes people who are otherwise ideal for your game just don't like each other due to personality differences.

                          While choosing players with similar outlooks helps, there is no way to tell for sure if two people will get along without actually having them play together first. Therefore, a good way to recruit players is to first play in games yourself and pay attention to players whom you have a great rapport with, then invite them to your game. If you can't do this, especially if you are new and having trouble getting into games yourself, you can run a test run: get your players together and run a one-shot. If all goes well, you can expand it into a proper campaign; otherwise, disband the game, keeping only those players you felt worked well with each other. Then ask them to suggest other players they'd like to play with and start a new game.


                          6. Don't set your expectations too high. Unless your criteria are very lax, it's unlikely you can find a group of players who will fulfill all of your criteria. In fact, about half of my current players do not completely meet the above criteria for selection. And that's fine! We are all imperfect human beings. You're not looking for some perfect ideal player, just people whose flaws you can live with and who can get along with each other.


                          7. Trust your players. Don't be too controlling or strict. So many GMs do this the wrong way round: they pick players they don't trust and then try to control them with a list of rules a mile long and the word 'no' at every corner. It never works. Have you played under this sort of iron-fisted GM? Their games are always so stifling and controlled, and they are so good at saying 'no' that eventually you stop bothering to ask; you never get the sense that your characters can accomplish great things in their game, and it feels like you're playing a computer game, with invisible fences everywhere to keep you on the path. These GMs find it difficult to attract and keep the type of players required to sustain long-lasting games.


                          8. Make combat interesting. Counter-intuitively, this is even more important if you are running a story-focused game; your players will be there for the roleplay and not so interested in the combat, therefore the combat must be even more engaging, so that they do not get bored and leave.

                          Combat is the slowest, boringest part of the game. A lot of M&M combat, at least the way I have seen it run, boils down to both sides standing still and using their best attacks on each other. A lot of builds that people claim are interesting -- or, for that matter, a lot of players who claim that combat is interesting -- do basically the same thing, just more one-sidedly.

                          So shake things up! Make location and position matter. Build enemies with weaknesses your players can target. Instead of using GM fiat to draw out battles, use complications, hostages, falling debris, endangered civilians and more to add objectives that aren't just 'wail on the enemy until he's dead'; your players still get their HP and they get to feel like heroes. MMOs, having long dealt with the issue of making soulless grinding just barely tolerable, are great places to filch ideas from. Use things like multi-part bosses, deathtraps and environmental hazards. Use minions who are individually weak, but make the boss much more dangerous if allowed to assist it.

                          Making a battle attention-worthy is more than deathtraps and game mechanics. The art of storytelling offers potent tools developed by generations of people whose ability to keep a full belly depended on being able to keep audiences glued to their seats as the prince faces down the evil sorceress. If you look at the end of Big Hero 6 for example there's a lot going on other than a 6v1 supers battle. You have things like the power of ingenuity, vengeance vs justice, friendship, sacrifice and loss.


                          9. Make the player characters protagonists. Protagonists are special and enjoy unique privileges that nobody else has.

                          Protagonists are always the ones who resolve the central conflict. Other characters might give them clues or handle the mook army, but it's always the protagonists who crack the case or face off with the Dark Lord. Note that this holds true regardless of PL. Harry Potter is the one who goes on adventures and foils Voldermort's schemes even though Dumbledore is higher in PL (and the one time he did go out, look at what happened).

                          Protagonists are the movers and shakers of their fictional worlds. Everything that's really significant is done by them. Therefore, anything important that needs to be done should be done by a player character. If the PC can't do it (even with a stunt or edit scene), bring in an NPC from the character's backstory to do it. If that isn't possible, forget about it. It's most likely not important.

                          If you need to give exposition, don't bring in an NPC to do it. Have the hero's skills and senses tell him/her the exposition instead.

                          Don't bring in NPCs to save the heroes, however badly they are doing. It's actually much more effective to let the heroes fail, give them a HP for the setback, then have them recover and completely trash whatever it was that beat them.


                          10. Never give up. No game goes completely without problems and inevitably, you will make a bad judgment call, an ill-considered ruling, a poorly designed encounter, a boring story or an adventure your players hate. A player might be upset, they might quit, or they might have some harsh criticisms of the way you run games. It happens to everyone and it'll happen however good you are.

                          And when you are a GM and the only reward you get is interested and enthusiastic players, it can be devastating. If you are not resilient, your game dies there and then. You must be able to recover from such setbacks.

                          Play-by-post is a marathon, not a sprint. To keep your game alive it's far more important that you are able to get up and post for your game day after day, month after month, year after year, than to run one brilliant scene before giving up.

                          You need discipline to keep posting over a long time. I use a simple rule myself: I'm not allowed to post for my characters until I update all the games I'm running first. This sends the message that my players are a priority and motivates me to post. I haven't managed to follow my own rule 100% of the time, but even when I fail to do so, I keep trying the next day. I think that as a GM of a new game, you should try to post as often as you find possible. A good schedule for a beginner would be Mon/Wed/Fri, and taking the weekends off. That means you don't have to post every day and are less likely to get burnt out.

                          A game never really dies as long as the GM is willing to keep the show going. If an idea doesn't work out, try another. If players quit, recruit new ones. If they don't post, press them to. If they still don't post, move the scene along slightly; usually the fear of being left out will prompt them to post.

                          Always keep your game moving and keep your players informed about what you are doing. I know you run this as a volunteer effort and it's unreasonable to make demands of your time. That said, too much inactivity sends the message to your players that they are not a high priority for you -- and that reduces interest. One GM let one of her games idle for an entire month between adventures just so she could get a second game going. Predictably, one player dropped out due to boredom.

                          Likewise if the posts seem to dry up, don't just ask your players "Is anyone still interested in this?" Do something worth being interested about! Blow something up!

                          Don't just wait for problems to show themselves. Ask your players if they had fun, if there was anything they didn't like, what they enjoyed most and hope to see more. If someone's posting rate drops without explanation, PM them to ask why.
                          A lot of times players are not willing to speak up about problems because they do not believe the GM is willing/able to solve them, because they do not want to come off as critical or full of negativity, because they do not want to feel obligated to stay on if the GM makes an effort to solve the problem but fails, or because they do not know what is wrong and how to fix it (you'll be surprised how hard it is to give good criticism). That's why it's so often to see GMs ask "is there anything wrong? Are you guys not enjoying the game?" and receive complete silence. So it's up to you, GM, to be proactive and sniff out problems.


                          Remember:

                          You don't have to be perfect, but you should try your best.

                          Your players are on your side; they want to see you succeed.

                          No rule should be followed off a cliff.

                          Good luck. I encourage you to keep playing and running games, and I hope this helped!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                            As a rebuttal, Ysariel's rule #3 is a bad, bad thing. It automatically disincludes new members of the board and is horribly judgemental. One reason why I suppose I would never play in one of his games, even if asked.

                            The majority of that advice is fairly sound though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Game longevity on this board (looking for advice)

                              To some degree I think you need to preselect players for a stable base so that when the game naturally slows there is a sub set of players you can rely on them even if the preselection is mentally done before recruitment closes instead of through invites. As was mentioned earlier in the thread though, leaving a few slots open for new players allows for the possibility of having another dynamic reliable player down the road.
                              [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/46-mrdents-menagerie-of-characters]My characters past and present[/url]

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