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  • Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

    Hi,

    What i'm trying to do is put Deflect and Protection (sustained) as alternate effects in an array, but Hero Lab is giving me a PL limit error even though both should not be active at the same time. It is similar to an unanswered query here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthrea...hlight=deflect

    Is there a problem with my understanding of the rules, or is it Hero Lab's coding?

  • #2
    Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

    Can you post the entire character? It would help determine where the problem is.
    My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
    Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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    • #3
      Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

      Originally posted by Rush View Post
      Can you post the entire character? It would help determine where the problem is.
      The following is not the full character, but it's where we got to and an error immediately popped up. PL 10

      Attributes:
      -5 Fighting
      -3 Toughness
      -5 Agility
      -5 Dexterity

      Powers:

      Force Field Array
      -Protection rank 28 (sustained)
      -Deflect 16 (redirect and reflect extras)

      It's fine when i try to activate protection, but when i try to activate deflect as an alternate effect, the error is a PL limit error, where it says Deflect has to be -5. However, with Toughness 'off' because I switched to Deflect, wouldn't it be 16-5-3=8, which is below the requirement of 20 total?

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      • #4
        Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

        Heh. I looked into the rules to figure out who loused things up, and there's my name...

        ~ Deflect is limited by PL
        validif (hero.tagis[Hero.NoPLLimits] <> 0)

        ~ Find out how high deflect can go. The obvious way to do this is to just
        ~ get hero.child[defDodge].field[PLMax].value and use that as our limit,
        ~ but that doesn't work unless you've increased your Dodge skill to where
        ~ you want Deflect to be. So instead, get the maximum value for its
        ~ trade-off, Toughness - this is the "base" PL maximum, plus however much
        ~ it's over the limit (this can be negative if it's under the limit).
        ~ This solution was suggested by Duggan, so if it's wrong ask him how to
        ~ fix it
        var limit as number
        limit = hero.child[defTough].field[PLBaseMax].value - hero.child[defTough].field[PLOver].value
        validif (field[pwBaseRank].value <= limit)
        @message = "Too many ranks - limited to " & limit & " ranks by Power Level"
        I can only get the error message to pop up if I have the Protection turned on, and yes, it does produce an error message on Deflect, but it also produces another error message showing the true source of the error, that it feels you're 5 Toughness ranks over PL at that point (since you have "defense" from the deflect. And yes, It should be saying that you're 16 over, but the game has difficulty with the logic once a trait gets boosted above PL*2). So yeah, the core problem is that Deflect, as an Instant power, usually is not turned on or off since they don't usually turn on or off to affect PL. You can get away with the activation part by nesting the Deflect in a "Linked Power" structure or something else so that it can be turned on or off, and with the addition of a single line in the Deflect script's Eval Rule, "validif (activated = 0)".

        If you want a temporary fix, I have instructions (and a .user file) here for disabling the PL check on Deflect.

        I'm going to go ahead and log a bug regarding the relative error messages and the inability to turn on and off Deflect. Fair warning, though, I've gotten one response to a bug report in the last year or so, so there may not be any quick resolution.
        [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

        [b]Current games:[/b]
        [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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        • #5
          Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

          Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
          Heh. I looked into the rules to figure out who loused things up, and there's my name...



          I can only get the error message to pop up if I have the Protection turned on, and yes, it does produce an error message on Deflect, but it also produces another error message showing the true source of the error, that it feels you're 5 Toughness ranks over PL at that point (since you have "defense" from the deflect. And yes, It should be saying that you're 16 over, but the game has difficulty with the logic once a trait gets boosted above PL*2). So yeah, the core problem is that Deflect, as an Instant power, usually is not turned on or off since they don't usually turn on or off to affect PL. You can get away with the activation part by nesting the Deflect in a "Linked Power" structure or something else so that it can be turned on or off, and with the addition of a single line in the Deflect script's Eval Rule, "validif (activated = 0)".

          If you want a temporary fix, I have instructions (and a .user file) here for disabling the PL check on Deflect.

          I'm going to go ahead and log a bug regarding the relative error messages and the inability to turn on and off Deflect. Fair warning, though, I've gotten one response to a bug report in the last year or so, so there may not be any quick resolution.
          Thank you for clearing that up, fuzzy. Appreciate it =D

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

            No worries. I'm sort of an unofficial support guy for M&M Hero Lab. I worked for Lone Wolf several years back, albeit on a different product (and... actually, the job went badly, due to my own personal faults, no faults of theirs) and I've done a lot of other fixes.
            [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

            [b]Current games:[/b]
            [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

              And Hollis emailed me today saying that the bug is on their list to fix for the next release.
              [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

              [b]Current games:[/b]
              [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Deflect and Protection as Alternate Effect Errors

                Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
                And Hollis emailed me today saying that the bug is on their list to fix for the next release.
                Excellent news. Thank you for the update.

                Comment

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