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How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

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  • How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

    After only a couple sessions, our speedster who has all his points in his speed powers, doesn't do very much damage to tougher opponents so we're going to tweak him a bit to use his speed to help his attacks.

    The actual problem is, he wants to run in a room, attack and run out, stopping my villains from ever getting to lay a finger on him. I've read enough Flash comics in my life to see that that isn't how a speedster operates, but comics are not really indicative of how it would actually work, it's mostly for story.

    How do I get him to play that way, operating on it being a story and not about doing every little min/max type trick to win?

  • #2
    Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

    Use the Ready action. The speedster's opponent takes the Ready action and then when the speedster zooms in, attacks and is about to use Move-By to keep going, the opponent gets to use their action before the speedster can zoom away (I'm assuming the speedster has a higher Init and is going first).

    As to the player's tactics, A) the system allows it (you could ban the Move-By Advantage to put the kibosh on that). B) the player might not like "failing" and is conflating getting KOd as having failed. Talk to him.
    Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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    • #3
      Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

      Other options include Triggered (surprise landmine!) and Reaction effects.
      [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

      [b]Current games:[/b]
      [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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      • #4
        Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

        Originally posted by F-Bomb138 View Post
        After only a couple sessions, our speedster who has all his points in his speed powers, doesn't do very much damage to tougher opponents so we're going to tweak him a bit to use his speed to help his attacks.

        The actual problem is, he wants to run in a room, attack and run out, stopping my villains from ever getting to lay a finger on him. I've read enough Flash comics in my life to see that that isn't how a speedster operates, but comics are not really indicative of how it would actually work, it's mostly for story.

        How do I get him to play that way, operating on it being a story and not about doing every little min/max type trick to win?
        Readied actions are your friend. Most NPCs will realize what is going on the first time the character hits them.

        As to if characters do this... I've seen that particular tactic used in a lot of DC Animated Shows.

        The Flash does it against Lex Luthor/Brainiac in JLU:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQBPnSVeS2k

        He does it again in Throne of Atlantis.

        Though mechanics-wise you can counter this by readying an action to attack an opponent when they come within range. Interrupt them mid-run.

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        • #5
          Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

          Thanks. Ready actions it is. And possibly a speedster arch enemy...

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          • #6
            Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

            Perception range attacks are also pretty useful, provided the battlefield enables it.
            My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
            Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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            • #7
              Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

              Originally posted by Rush View Post
              Perception range attacks are also pretty useful, provided the battlefield enables it.
              You'd still need a Readied action given the speedster would have (most likely) the higher init and with Move-By, the speedster might very well have already rounded a corner in their hit-and-run tactic.
              Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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              • #8
                Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                Originally posted by badpenny View Post
                You'd still need a Readied action given the speedster would have (most likely) the higher init and with Move-By, the speedster might very well have already rounded a corner in their hit-and-run tactic.
                Possibly. With a very open environment, or lots of cameras (or if the options to run are just fairly limited, initially or via battlefield manipulation) the Perception range attack gets by the other annoying trait of speedsters: high Dodge.
                My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
                Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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                • #9
                  Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                  Can't believe we forgot the obvious. Doors!

                  Mechanically, opening a closed door requires a move action. True, it's the sort of thing that's often ignored (for example, when a speedster is quickly searching a large, empty office building.) But for limiting the utility of Move-by Action in combat, it makes sense to enforce it.

                  This way, a speedster fighting the supervillain in his control room can still dash out of close combat range after a hit, but traveling out of the room between attacks can be made much less feasible.
                  My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
                  Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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                  • #10
                    Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                    Eyeh, except most Speedsters also have Quickness and that can get opening doors down to practically a free action.

                    If you can perform a task in less than a second (time rank 2), the GM may choose to treat that task as a free action for you (although the GM can still limit the number of free actions you can accomplish in a turn as usual).
                    [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

                    [b]Current games:[/b]
                    [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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                    • #11
                      Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                      Don't forget complications. You can always just say the villain was ready for him (even if he wasn't) and hand the character a Hero Point.

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                      • #12
                        Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                        Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
                        Eyeh, except most Speedsters also have Quickness and that can get opening doors down to practically a free action.
                        True, and it would be up to the GM to take that into consideration. A large, heavy door, for example, may take more time to open even for a speedster. A tech-oriented villain may prefer to have automatic doors that open in an elaborate, multi-sliding panel fashion. Office doors? Probably not much of an impediment. But then, whenever I picture a villain's lair, I rarely picture those doors.
                        My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
                        Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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                        • #13
                          Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                          The best way to deal with any rules abusive player is to talk to them about the problem. A storyteller shouldn't have to constantly work around the PCs. It's a collaborative game.
                          "Mom, is the Dairy Queen married to the Burger King?" - My five-year-old

                          The Ro Show, my collection of characters and random builds.

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                          • #14
                            Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                            Originally posted by MissRo View Post
                            The best way to deal with any rules abusive player is to talk to them about the problem.
                            Agreed.

                            A storyteller shouldn't have to constantly work around the PCs. It's a collaborative game.
                            Abuse should be dealt with. But surely, for a player to choose to play a straightforward speedster, and to then take normal, logical actions for their character, wouldn't qualify as abuse.
                            My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
                            Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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                            • #15
                              Re: How do I curb a Speedster player from abusing rules?

                              Originally posted by Rush View Post
                              Abuse should be dealt with. But surely, for a player to choose to play a straightforward speedster, and to then take normal, logical actions for their character, wouldn't qualify as abuse.
                              Having to boil every encounter down to 'the villian readies an action' or 'there's a big heavy door' isn't much fun either. If something is detracting from the fun of the game, it should be dealt with, abuse or no.
                              "Mom, is the Dairy Queen married to the Burger King?" - My five-year-old

                              The Ro Show, my collection of characters and random builds.

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