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  • #46
    Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

    Originally posted by Ser heretic View Post
    I don't seem to be having any trouble. Hmmmmmmm.

    House Resources, updated with Corrigon's roll:

    Defense: 20 (17+3 Corrigon)
    Influence: 19 (15+4 Favor Event)
    Lands: 39 (35+4 Favor Event)
    Law: 25 (18+1 Laughin barrel, +6 Favor Event)
    Population: 42
    Power: 30 (20+3 squadfather40, +1 Dave, +6 Favor Event)
    Wealth: 21 (20+1 rax)
    Well if this post goes through I will officially give up on trying to work out what the heck's going on.

    I've been thinking a bit about how to spend our resources. Here are my suggestions:
    Defense - now that we got ourselves a nice, round 20, a Hall seems like a done thing.

    Influence - we can't afford an official heir, so I think we should hold on to what we've got and build up some more Influence before we start spending any points here

    Lands - I wanted a combination of terrain and features that maximizes our options for Wealth holdings, now and in the future. Plus, I've always wanted a proper town for one of my houses. I'm envisioning a mostly wooden town on stilts in a waterlogged area where our streams drain into a larger river.
    Wetlands with a Small Town and River (26 points)
    Plains with a Stream (6 points)
    Grassland Plains (6 points)

    Power - Looking at our resources I noticed we actually have pretty high values in Lands and Population, but relatively poor resources otherwise. With that in mind I envisioned our house as using plenty of cavalry to patrol our far flung (hah!) domains.
    Trained Light Cavalry (8 points)
    Trained Archer Light Cavalry (11 points) - I'm a sucker for mounted crossbowmen in Medieval Total War, so I wanted to see if they can work in SIFRP as well.
    Trained Archers (6 points)
    Trained Garrison (5 points)

    Wealth - I'm looking to boost our House Fortunes rolls while still providing interesting and varied other bonuses.
    Port (10 points) - adds +2 to House Fortunes
    Food Agriculture (5 points) - adds +1 to House Fortunes, and boost increases in Population and Power by +1 each
    Comfortable Standard of Living (5 points) - a holding that directly improves our characters, but can easily be replaced by another 5-point holding or improvement of more use to the house itself. Our characters get +1 Intrigue Defense, a bonus to healing naturally in our home territory, and characters can pick up goods worth 1 gold dragon or less without paying for them out of their own pocket.

    Using the new rules for calculating bonuses in Out of Strife, Prosperity, we end up with a total house fortunes modifier of +2, which translates into +1d3. Our Land holdings enable us to invest in numerous other Wealth holdings that can be set up quickly (1d6 months each) and cheaply (5 Wealth), so we can hopefully grow our fortunes quite quickly. We can further boost our House Fortunes roll if one of our characters has the Head for Numbers benefit, and simply reducing our Population to 40 or less will improve it by a further +2 (for a total of +4/+1d6).

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by rax; 17th August 2016, 03:06 PM.

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    • #47
      Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

      Great choices! I say we go with them.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

        Originally posted by rax View Post
        Well if this post goes through I will officially give up on trying to work out what the heck's going on.

        I've been thinking a bit about how to spend our resources. Here are my suggestions:
        Defense - now that we got ourselves a nice, round 20, a Hall seems like a done thing.

        Influence - we can't afford an official heir, so I think we should hold on to what we've got and build up some more Influence before we start spending any points here

        Lands - I wanted a combination of terrain and features that maximizes our options for Wealth holdings, now and in the future. Plus, I've always wanted a proper town for one of my houses. I'm envisioning a mostly wooden town on stilts in a waterlogged area where our streams drain into a larger river.
        Wetlands with a Small Town and River (26 points)
        Plains with a Stream (6 points)
        Grassland Plains (6 points)

        Power - Looking at our resources I noticed we actually have pretty high values in Lands and Population, but relatively poor resources otherwise. With that in mind I envisioned our house as using plenty of cavalry to patrol our far flung (hah!) domains.
        Trained Light Cavalry (8 points)
        Trained Archer Light Cavalry (11 points) - I'm a sucker for mounted crossbowmen in Medieval Total War, so I wanted to see if they can work in SIFRP as well.
        Trained Archers (6 points)
        Trained Garrison (5 points)

        Wealth - I'm looking to boost our House Fortunes rolls while still providing interesting and varied other bonuses.
        Port (10 points) - adds +2 to House Fortunes
        Food Agriculture (5 points) - adds +1 to House Fortunes, and boost increases in Population and Power by +1 each
        Comfortable Standard of Living (5 points) - a holding that directly improves our characters, but can easily be replaced by another 5-point holding or improvement of more use to the house itself. Our characters get +1 Intrigue Defense, a bonus to healing naturally in our home territory, and characters can pick up goods worth 1 gold dragon or less without paying for them out of their own pocket.

        Using the new rules for calculating bonuses in Out of Strife, Prosperity, we end up with a total house fortunes modifier of +2, which translates into +1d3. Our Land holdings enable us to invest in numerous other Wealth holdings that can be set up quickly (1d6 months each) and cheaply (5 Wealth), so we can hopefully grow our fortunes quite quickly. We can further boost our House Fortunes roll if one of our characters has the Head for Numbers benefit, and simply reducing our Population to 40 or less will improve it by a further +2 (for a total of +4/+1d6).

        Thoughts?
        I am on a business trip, so I have not really been able to finish my PC. The background piece is interesting, but I haven't been able to digest it fully. I was imagining a leader type, perhaps a bit on the young side.

        So I love the idea of the land set up, and the stilted town is an original idea. Very cool. It poses some challenges that I get into below. The wealth ideas are good as well, and seem to fit the terrain.

        I have some heartburn on the defense and power setup though. My thoughts...

        Troops & Defense, in no particular order:

        -I am expecting that the hall is in/near the town in marshy land. That sounds like a major problem for cavalry. We may want to consider two towers, place one on a plain, one in the marsh. Base the cav out of the tower in the plains. I am not sure how the two tower idea squares with the "Comfortable Standard of Living" thing however.

        -Mounted crossbowmen sounds bizarre to me and reloading on horseback would be highly problematic. I don't believe that the largest part of our points should be spent on an experimental unit. A more traditional horse mounted bowman would be more palatable to me, but I am still not entirely sold.

        -Cavalry, which is generally a good idea, will be good for controlling the plains. So I am on board with 1 cav unit. If we go the horse archer (that is, with a bow) route, then we should stick with one or the other. If we do go two, perhaps change the training ratings a bit.

        - I would like to consider how we might control this marsh and town. A unit of skirmishers or scouts, maybe canoe or kayak mobile, could be interesting. I would need to test the cost with the narrator though.
        ---If we really want to go crazy, we make these guys a veteran or elite level unit, and they operate like some kind of commando/infiltrator unit. Possibilities abound....

        - On a more general note, I my preference is for one or two veteran units, plus some lower level folk to round out the group.

        Back to my PC: My current idea was that he was a younger son that spent his time with skirmishers/scouts (see the units below) that was unexpectedly thrust into the Lordship. This would not necessarily mean that somebody else shouldn't lead that group, just that he had an affinity for them. Another possibility is that the other warriors in the group are more traditional knights/warriors. This open ups the possibility that non-house types look down on the youngish lord who "rather muck about in a canoe."

        OK. I will spend some time this weekend sorting this out and getting a PC put together.

        Quick question to narrator - do I need to submit the PC to you for approval first, or should I just post it.

        DR

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

          Originally posted by David Rosenberg View Post
          So I love the idea of the land set up, and the stilted town is an original idea. Very cool. It poses some challenges that I get into below. The wealth ideas are good as well, and seem to fit the terrain.

          I have some heartburn on the defense and power setup though. My thoughts...

          Troops & Defense, in no particular order:

          -I am expecting that the hall is in/near the town in marshy land. That sounds like a major problem for cavalry. We may want to consider two towers, place one on a plain, one in the marsh. Base the cav out of the tower in the plains. I am not sure how the two tower idea squares with the "Comfortable Standard of Living" thing however.

          -Mounted crossbowmen sounds bizarre to me and reloading on horseback would be highly problematic. I don't believe that the largest part of our points should be spent on an experimental unit. A more traditional horse mounted bowman would be more palatable to me, but I am still not entirely sold.

          -Cavalry, which is generally a good idea, will be good for controlling the plains. So I am on board with 1 cav unit. If we go the horse archer (that is, with a bow) route, then we should stick with one or the other. If we do go two, perhaps change the training ratings a bit.

          - I would like to consider how we might control this marsh and town. A unit of skirmishers or scouts, maybe canoe or kayak mobile, could be interesting. I would need to test the cost with the narrator though.
          ---If we really want to go crazy, we make these guys a veteran or elite level unit, and they operate like some kind of commando/infiltrator unit. Possibilities abound....

          - On a more general note, I my preference is for one or two veteran units, plus some lower level folk to round out the group.
          Thanks for your thoughts! I'll try to respond point-by-point below.

          Placement of the hall - I don't necessarily see it as being in the wetlands domain. I'm more inclined to put it in the farmland (plain with streams), since it's likely to be a nicer environment and traditionally a noble family would probably value good farmland over a marshy area and so see it as more important to protect. We may all agree that the town's the thing, but we don't know the history of our territory either. The hall may already have been in place when we received the land, and the town may or may not have grown up under our auspices. The town itself also provides a very small defensive bonus on its own.

          That said, having two towers works as well.

          Mounted crossbowmen - these appear to have been a genuine troop type, at least during the later stages of the medieval period. What's most up for dispute is whether they fired and reloaded on horseback or if they dismounted and fought as normal foot crossbowmen.

          In game terms there's nothing experimental about them. SIFRP makes no distinction between missile troops with crossbows and missile troops armed with bows, so the differences are entirely cosmetic. What we will definitely be getting is a highly mobile unit, capable of engaging the enemy from afar and doing good damage - 5 Damage/DoS with Agility 3 - while also being able to do good damage in a melee fight - Fighting Damage is Animal Handling +2; even with no points to improve Animal Handling, Fighting Damage is 4/DoS.

          Cavalry in general - in game terms, the wetlands and the plains with a stream only do one thing - they slow movement. This means that cavalry units can operate freely and still be faster than any foot units we put there.

          Something to remember is that the terrain of a particular domain is merely the dominant type in the area. It doesn't mean that the whole wetlands are the Louisiana bayous, although the parts closest to the river probably are.

          Control of marsh and town - A simple solution would be to make the garrison unit or the archers the garrison of the town, while the cavalry is our patrol force.

          There's the guerilla unit type which seems close to what you're envisioning with your scout/skirmisher idea, but they have no means of improving their melee capability unless they're combined with another unit type (as I've done with the Archer Cavalry).

          As for their means of transportation, unless we add a special movement rule for them, they would move as a slowly as any other infantry. The RAW warfare system isn't granular enough to worry about whether a unit has kayaks or not - it can safely be assumed that such are used as needed without providing any particular benefits. This same principle applies to the cavalry - there will already be tracks and stretches of solid ground/shallow water that they can traverse taking only the penalty for slow movement.

          Veterancy - I like more experienced units as well, and we can have them at the end of the first month of the game. All we need to do is trade 4 Population for 4 Power as our first House Action, and presto - two units will be upgraded to Veterans. I'd suggest this is a move we definitely want to make ASAP anyway, as lowering our Population to 40 or less helps our House Fortunes rolls.

          A general note of my own - it's easy to think of what's presented above as static, but I think it's important to remember that this is just a starting point. Through judicious use of House Actions and House Fortunes rolls, we can grow and improve our territory month by month - unless Ser heretic intends to have all out war in the first few months of the game.

          I'm absolutely in favor of adding say, a tower to bolster the defenses of our town, as well as developing our domains economically. For instance, if we go cavalry heavy, I'd like us to consider using the Grassland Plains for Horse Husbandry, which can be improved to give us cheaper cavalry. (BTW, that's why I bought that particular domain setup in the first place).

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

            Septon Kyle ???
            Former knight turned Septon
            Role Ė schemer/warrior
            Virtue
            Vice
            ID 10
            Composure 15/15
            CD 9
            Health 9/9
            Awareness 16

            Status 3 Reputation 1B
            Persuasion 5 Charm 1B Convince 1B
            Will 5 Dedication 1B
            Awareness 4 Empathy 1B
            Fighting 3 Bludgeons 1B
            Agility 3
            Athletics 3
            Language 3
            Healing 3 treat Injury 1B
            Knowledge 3 Education 1B, Streetwise 1B
            Endurance 3
            Cunning 3 Decipher 1B
            Deception 3
            Survival 3
            Animal Handling 1

            Favoured of Smallfolk
            Pious
            Charismatic Ė or knowledge focus (Herbalism)

            Flaw (Agility)
            Debt Ė paying money to the Sept
            Bound to the bottle

            A former knight who fought in the Blackfyre Rebellion. He isthe brother to the original lord and uncle to the current lord. Commander of the(infantry/scouts/guerrillas), he was feared for his hammer. He fought inseveral battles including one against the house they had sworn allegiance to. Hewas injured in the final days and when he came to; he claimed to have seen avision of the Seven, forsaking his old ways and devoting himself to the Seven,rather than bloodshed.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

              Originally posted by David Rosenberg View Post
              Quick question to narrator - do I need to submit the PC to you for approval first, or should I just post it.
              Just post it and I'll eventually have comments.

              Originally posted by rax View Post
              A general note of my own - it's easy to think of what's presented above as static, but I think it's important to remember that this is just a starting point. Through judicious use of House Actions and House Fortunes rolls, we can grow and improve our territory month by month - unless Ser heretic intends to have all out war in the first few months of the game.
              There won't be all out war in the first few months...unless you start it!

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                I'm fine with the house stuff, apart from one issue: Archer Cav is about as OP as it gets... Perhaps we shouldn't have that from the get-go. Especially as it is not anything GRRM writes about in his works (Apart from with the dothraki).

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                  Originally posted by Laughin barrel View Post
                  I'm fine with the house stuff, apart from one issue: Archer Cav is about as OP as it gets... Perhaps we shouldn't have that from the get-go. Especially as it is not anything GRRM writes about in his works (Apart from with the dothraki).
                  Actually, there's mention of mounted archers in a few places. The wiki states that at the Battle of Castle Black, Stannis' forces included mounted bowmen. It also notes that mounted archers from House Sarsfield are among the force that Jaime takes to subdue Riverrun, and that the Dornish make use of mounted archers. So it seems to me that there's plenty of inspiration for mounted crossbowmen. However, since the idea seems genuinely troubling to at least two other players, we could just turn them into regular old cavalry (either Trained Heavy Cavalry or Veteran Light Cavalry), though I do feel it makes our host less interesting.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                    Are we ready to start posting characters? If so...do we do it here or will there be a seperate thread for that?

                    A seperate thread would help for when we'd have to quick reference something.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                      Originally posted by squadfather40 View Post
                      Are we ready to start posting characters? If so...do we do it here or will there be a seperate thread for that?

                      A seperate thread would help for when we'd have to quick reference something.
                      I will eventually have a separate thread to collect that information, but you can post your draft here for now. It's going to take me awhile to write up various NPCs and stuff for the Characters thread, and I'd like to wait and see what we come up with here first.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                        No worries, I'll start working on mine. I've got a couple ideas for my character.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                          Quick question on Status: The way I read table 6-5, the HoH max Status is three because the house influence is 19. Is this correct?

                          DR

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                          • #58
                            Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                            My thoughts

                            Placement of thehall
                            -
                            If we have twotowers, the tower in the marsh I would think is the refuge, possibly where theoriginal house forces fought from as it is a pig to get to and attack.
                            What is the use forthe marshland?


                            Mounted crossbowmen -

                            Archers wouldfit better with Westeros. Crossbows arenít so much a thing. We shoulddefinitely want to increase their animal handling a little


                            Control of marsh and town -
                            depends on how much you need to bring the marsh into play? As the primaryresource area is the town and the grasslands, it makes sense that is theprimary importance.

                            Certainly thesept, however small and unimportant it may be, is likely to be in the town.


                            Veterancy -

                            From a narrativepoint of view, the units havenít really been heavily needed for 15 years, sothey might have been veteran during the war, but with fresh blood and a lack ofcombat, thatís why they are only trained. Maybe getting some of the veterans torejoin as part of some rp to get the units up to veteran is something to lookat.

                            House stats can be very fluid. Certainly, we will want to get our influence upas it limits status and obviously as the head of house does not have an heir(and possibly not even a wife), this could be very important towards futureevents. A decent military that might be able to protect a more influentialhouse with a weaker military might be something we can bargain. Certainly a lotof houses will want to be trading with a town, especially one we might look atincreasing even to a medium size town in the future.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                              I agree with the idea of having archers. There's nothing wrong with crossbowmen, but get the bowmen's skills up enough and they can be a force to be reckoned with. Just imagine them taking a page from Ghengis Khan's book and be true mounted archers.

                              As far as the 2 towers....I say put one near the town. That'll obviously be the main house area. As far as the one in the marsh...that could be the main fallback spot. As it was stated previously it'd be a definite problem in taking it by force. Especially if we tore the roads up as we fell back to it.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: OOC: Black Dragon Rising (recruiting)

                                @Corrigon
                                Placement of the hall: If you're asking why I put our points in a wetland domain, it's because I ran out of points. More plains was simply too expensive.

                                Mounted crossbowmen: As long as they're just Trained, I'd consider it unwise to invest in Animal Handling. It has no major uses other than boosting Fighting Damage, which is already competitive with infantry even if they only have Animal Handling 2. I think boosting their Marksmanship Damage, and their chances of hitting at range and in melee would be most important (i.e. we should purchase 3 ranks each in Agility, Fighting and Marksmanship to begin with).

                                However, I'm honestly surprised at how much controversy and discussion this suggestion has stirred up! And since two players appear opposed to the entire concept, I'm not sure that there'll be any mounted missile troops in our host once the game begins.

                                Veterancy: I concur. And switching Population for Power as an early house action could symbolize us luring back some of the old hands to stiffen the ranks, as well as taking on some experienced mercenaries to improve our troops' quality.

                                @squadfather40
                                Both the town and the plains with a stream are important to our economy (i.e. both have improvements that represent major sources of income), so if we go with two towers instead of a single hall, I'd put them in those two domains.

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