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  • Sailors?

    I've been through the guide books several times, but something always stuck out to me: What's the deal with Sailors? They read like their naval units, but would they require ships? They also don't seem to be focused on Marksmanship, so they're a Fighting unit, but in what way would they be used?

  • #2
    Re: Sailors?

    Honestly I must say there is no real use of them. The infantry which is transported via ship (like Ironmen raiders) may very likely be Raiders or a similar unit. Perhaps we should thought about additional rules. It may be that sailors could much more easy fight on hand-to-hand combat on sea (boarding and capturing a ship) while other units may suffer slightly drawbacks from the circumstances. Or a combined warship (or transport ship) and sailor unit have slightly bonus for fighting because of the trained additional men...

    It may also be that the unit is more fluff (they sound right) without having a real bonus...

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    • #3
      Re: Sailors?

      I would believe that sailors are units that comes together with the expensive ship units.
      When fighting in the sea you would use the ships stats and in land you would use the sailors stats.
      Other reason for the sailors would be as well in case the ships are destroyed they would be used to measure the updated Power stat of the House.

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      • #4
        Re: Sailors?

        I am not so sure, since the warship unit are surely expensive, but on the other hand it is also a very dangerous unit. They could deal quiet a amount of damage against conventional units on the shore or in settlements/castles near the sea (via their hard-hitting long range attack) and have even in ground version a relatively good armour. And they could of course transport conventional units over water. So I am not sure if with warships you could got a sailor-unit for free (that would lead also to the question if their stats are also improved if the warship unit was improved via wealth). Perhaps for a very limited amount of additional power/wealth?

        That you got a sailor unit if your warships are destroyed is something I am even more sceptical about, since I guess such a defeat would come with great losses of men. On the other hand of course 100 sailors are not much as crew for five warships (what is the normal size of a warship-unit), even if you do not count the oarsmen (which you should in the case of Ironmen-longboats). And also other navies do not use slaves or criminals in any case. That would support your idea (since even while the total crew are greater you could argue that only a limited number of men could be used as "infantry").

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        • #5
          Re: Sailors?

          Perhaps they are for when two warships get too close to one another?

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          • #6
            Re: Sailors?

            I think sailors are designed to allow warships increase ranged attacks damage.

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            • #7
              Re: Sailors?

              Originally posted by Kajani View Post
              I am not so sure, since the warship unit are surely expensive, but on the other hand it is also a very dangerous unit. They could deal quiet a amount of damage against conventional units on the shore or in settlements/castles near the sea (via their hard-hitting long range attack) and have even in ground version a relatively good armour. And they could of course transport conventional units over water. So I am not sure if with warships you could got a sailor-unit for free (that would lead also to the question if their stats are also improved if the warship unit was improved via wealth). Perhaps for a very limited amount of additional power/wealth?

              That you got a sailor unit if your warships are destroyed is something I am even more sceptical about, since I guess such a defeat would come with great losses of men. On the other hand of course 100 sailors are not much as crew for five warships (what is the normal size of a warship-unit), even if you do not count the oarsmen (which you should in the case of Ironmen-longboats). And also other navies do not use slaves or criminals in any case. That would support your idea (since even while the total crew are greater you could argue that only a limited number of men could be used as "infantry").
              Where are you getting this from? From what I can tell, there's next to nothing on naval warfare at all. I was going to try to find some other system and go through the headaches to somehow figure out how to shoehorn it into fitting into ASoIaF RPG parameters.

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              • #8
                Re: Sailors?

                JJVolty:
                I am not sure what you mean. Where I got what? The stats for warships are known, and there is no rule that says a warship could not shoot towards units on land - so i would say they could deal their marksmanship damage to any unit which comes close to shore. (Agility +1/+3). They also have an armor of 5/10 with no armor penalty, what I consider quiet useful. Add the fact that according to errata the commander of a warship could himself attach to the unit without losing his ability to command, and your warship is in most cases a good "sharpshooter". That a warship could transport a unit into battle is said in the text to the unit.
                The rest I wrote was indeed no rules but just my interpretation - that a sailor-unit for free might be a little bit too much for your money (aka power), and that a sinking could result in high losses is just logical. Have you ever heard of the number of losses in some sea-battles? Sluis was a battle in which over 15.000 men were captured or killed, what is quiet a high number, considering the fact it was very near to the shore. It was an extreme example, but one which proof that losses of sailors could be high, so that it is not sure you will have lots of men left if your unit is destroyed...

                The rules of ASOIAFRPG for sea combat are indeed a little poor in detail, it is more or less a battle on land transported to the sea (so to speak), but they could be used (and we have do so). Both in letting units fight as passengers and letting ships fight each other or using a more narrative approach in which actions of single people matter. It is surely not a perfect system, but for smaller battles it works.
                Last edited by Kajani; 27th February 2019, 12:16 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Sailors?

                  Well, the cost for warship units is on table 6-8 on p 111 and tables 10-1 and 10-2 on p 178 have them listed as well but that's about the extent of it. I'm underwhelmed. There ought to be a variety of different ships and ramming and other techniques.

                  I guess it might work OK as you outlined in coastal battles, but I'd not had coastal battles in mind.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Sailors?

                    Well, we have here a thread in which we have self-build stats for transport vessels.

                    https://roninarmy.com/threads/7171-N...ighlight=units

                    Maybe they are of some use for you?
                    Actually there are different types of ships - the bare-bones and the upgraded could be defined as different and it may be make sense if you invest the wealth for improved ships from the start (I mean I could imagine to increase the damage they deal via wealth after creation, but to double the armor is of course somehow hard to swallow, since there is no plate armor for ships).

                    If I may dare a suggestion - maybe you could consider that for a certain amount of power/wealth even a stat of a ship might raised during creation, which could not be raised normally - for example Athletic or Endurance - which would mean the ship is stronger... It should not be too cheap, at least one point power or two wealth I see as minimum or maybe 1 Power and 1 wealth?

                    I think the normal warship is more a small galley or light sailor, and the several hundred oar-ships which are mentioned are either improved from the start or they are not five in one unit, but three or maybe even just one or two.

                    In certain cases you may think about combining a warship unit with additonal investments like a real siege weapon for it (maybe at the costs as the Night's Watch have to pay for them to equip their castles?), which would give you more punch and range (although we treated the long range damage of ships as damage done by light siege weapons, at least if the stats of the ship are improved).

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