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Ocule
12-03-2014, 12:22 PM
So far ive been using burning wheel for all my ASoIF needs but recently have opened up to the idea of trying out this particular system. Any particular benefit this system has over BWG?

Sunstaff
12-05-2014, 12:59 AM
Sell you on this system.
It's a bit like trying to sell someone on a diesel, ethanol, or gasoline. Why does someone like what they like?

Ok. So why do I like it?

1) I think it captures the "feel" of the novels well. Very well in fact.
2) The system is a complete system in 1 book. No buying 5 books.
3) The system is easy to learn, intuitive, and multi-layered.
4) It allows a variety of characters and builds, and this is in spite of being a "low- magic" system with no clerics or wizards. (Although some optional rules come close)
5) The rules are well thought out in the sense that their a only a few loop holes, and generally speaking, although some disagree... Aren't broken at higher skill levels. The damage caps out and at higher levels it's just who can inflict wounds the quickest. (I unfortunately let one of my players take 9 1's in exhange for XP, but he's such an interesting player that's it's not as bad as it sounds, although he does need to be reigned in at times)
6) Starting characters are actually cool, and able to do things, and even to a certain degree hold their own... If I had to compare I would say characters start out as an 7th or 8th level 3.5E D&D character.... Something like that.
7) The House System in engenious, and gives characters of even opposing motivations and moral compasses reason to adventure together, and gain political and military power.
8) The intrigue system is probably the single coolest thing about the game... You can actually force NPCs to do stuff... And they can force you. I think it is very well thought out.
9) I personally think the Campiagn Setting may be the best "gazette" to Westeros currently in print. Although I also use the A World of Ice and Fire app, the Westeros.org wiki.
10) The system is well supported, current, and will continue to be even better supported for the foreseeable future.

Have I sold u?

Ocule
12-05-2014, 09:52 PM
So far yeah, I pretty much bought burning wheel specifically for that setting because it had something at the time that no other gaming system offered. It was gritty, had some nice design choices like the "let it ride" rule and the idea of lifepath. Also one of the only low magic fantasy rpgs ive seen ever. However, ASOIAF i didnt really give it a fair shot because at first glance it came off as overly simplified D&D but im starting to think i was wrong about it. That and some of the things i thought were cool in burning wheel were just a bit convoluted and too crunchy. Like the game is super simple until you get to Fight! mechanics or Dual of Wits or Range and cover. 3 subsystems each with their own set of rules just feels a bit weighty for an rpg. So i was hoping that green ronin had a game that could do dark and gritty fantasy in a way that didnt break my suspension of disbelief and wasnt all too hard to learn. So far from what you said i kind of like that players start off well versed in their fields to feel like a living breathing character and didnt just learn 1 skill growing up.

Corrigon
12-06-2014, 08:04 AM
You can end up with some one trick ponies, but they generally end up in trouble from other areas. There is a lot of scope for playing a lot of different type of characters. The game does make suggestions about what are appropriate skills for certain types of characters, but you are not held to them.

if you want to see a game in use, http://bitw.boards.net/ has just started, though you would need to choose an existing or create a character in order to join.

Zorbeltuss
12-06-2014, 10:10 AM
I'd say that combat (both the sort with words and the sort with swords) fits nicely with the ruleset and is pretty easy to pick up and play. There's some balance issues though, but what system doesn't have balance issues?

And it's a system where loosing tends to mean consequences.

Ocule
12-07-2014, 12:11 PM
What kind of balance issues and how bad are they

Zorbeltuss
12-07-2014, 12:24 PM
Main thing is that offensive capability tends to outgrow the means to effectively ward against them, which can make combat or intrigue (the system used to resolve social conflict) quickly be all about who rolled the highest iniative. It isn't too bad once you get the hang of how it all works though.

Sunstaff
12-08-2014, 12:31 AM
See, the default difficulty for any test is:Challenging 9DC..... So 3D6 allows a success about 60% of the time... With 4D6 you're going to be succeeding about 94% of the time, and with 6D6 about 99% of the time.

In combat for instance
If a character has an armour class of 15, which is very good... 6D6 is going to hit 93% of the time.

What this then boils down to is degrees of success... How much you smashed it!!!! You can get a maximum of 4 degrees of success.

So, in combat.... That means taking a wound... Since no one has 25-30 health.

That then boils down to 1) who wins initiative since they go first. 2) How much endurance they have since that's how many wounds they can take before they die....

While there are creative ways to negate some of these things, ultimately it boils down finding creative ways to realistically challenge your players. Defeating them is always easy. Sometimes that's hard...

But ultimately... It's The Game of Thrones.. And as the players move up through the political echelons, they are either going to upset the establishment, worry the establishment, or been seen as tools and hence be used as weapons for the establishment... And that's the biggest challenge in AGOT... Knowing who your friends truly are, who your enemies truly are, and being able to spot the difference.

Even in intrigues... At least in my opinion there is no "reveal your long term plans in case your are ultimately planning to screw me roll"