PDA

View Full Version : Assassin's Creed Unity and Rogue



Charles Phipps
11-13-2014, 08:32 AM
So anyone pick up these two?

I have.

So far, the consensus has been that Unity is a disaster of porting with countless glitches and an un-engaging protagonist. Improvements to the former may come but I think the problems with Unity are at a story-level. How DOES one make a story about Aristocratic Assassins vs. Templar Revolutionaries make the slightest bit of sense?

Ironically, despite being viewed as a shameless cash-in for 7th generation console holdouts, everyone is saying Rogue is awesome. They say it's a bit derivative in gameplay to Assassin's Creed 4 but I think that ship sailed for Assassin's Creed awhile back.

Nevius
11-13-2014, 09:18 AM
So anyone pick up these two?

I have.

So far, the consensus has been that Unity is a disaster of porting with countless glitches and an un-engaging protagonist. Improvements to the former may come but I think the problems with Unity are at a story-level. How DOES one make a story about Aristocratic Assassins vs. Templar Revolutionaries make the slightest bit of sense?

Ironically, despite being viewed as a shameless cash-in for 7th generation console holdouts, everyone is saying Rogue is awesome. They say it's a bit derivative in gameplay to Assassin's Creed 4 but I think that ship sailed for Assassin's Creed awhile back.

Honestly, the storyline of the Assassin's Creed universe has become so bloated that its begun to collapse in on itself like a dying star. I liked Black Flag quite a bit, but that was almost entirely because of the ship-to-ship combat and ocean exploration. Doing the actual story missions was a complete drag, and I couldn't wait to get through them so I could resume buckling swashes and shivering timbers.

I think the best, most enjoyable, and most engaging Assassin's Creed game in years has been Shadow of Mordor.

Charles Phipps
11-13-2014, 01:37 PM
Honestly, the storyline of the Assassin's Creed universe has become so bloated that its begun to collapse in on itself like a dying star. I liked Black Flag quite a bit, but that was almost entirely because of the ship-to-ship combat and ocean exploration. Doing the actual story missions was a complete drag, and I couldn't wait to get through them so I could resume buckling swashes and shivering timbers.

I think the best, most enjoyable, and most engaging Assassin's Creed game in years has been Shadow of Mordor.

Which is kind of weird since they've more or less thrown out the entire story but the barest essentials.

And the actual piracy, for me, was far less fun than Edward's journey.

Arkrite
11-13-2014, 02:05 PM
Weird.
For me the fun I had was in sailing around, having ship battles and robbing ships. The game always slowed down when I had to do story missions... which I honestly felt were poorly written and I didn't much enjoy.
And came to a halt whenever they decided it was time to come out of the simulation to simulate working in a office building.

But that's all just my personal preference speaking, honestly.

Kyle
11-13-2014, 02:18 PM
It's going to be a couple weeks before I get to sit down with either of them, but I actually think I'm looking forward to Rogue more, because of all the ship elements. The boat was easily my favourite part of AssCreed 3, and it was even better in Black Flag. Attacking all the strongholds, and fighting pirate hunters. I loved finally upgrading the Jackdaw to the point where I could take down the last of the legendary boats that were in each of the four corners. I'll be happy with Rogue if they haven't changed a thing.

I'm a bit put-off by the fact that they went with British accents for the characters in Unity, considering it's set in France. You'd think Ubisoft would be able to get some French voice actors on the game.

Nevius
11-13-2014, 02:34 PM
And came to a halt whenever they decided it was time to come out of the simulation to simulate working in a office building.

Yeah that was a bizarre gameplay choice. One minute you're Errol Flynn-ing your way across the Caribbean, and the next minute you're taking a memo to Allen in Human Resources.

Arkrite
11-13-2014, 02:49 PM
I got lost in the office at one point during a "real world" event and spent nearly ten minutes wandering to every desk in the place trying to figure out which one was mine so I could get back to playing the game.

Kyle
11-13-2014, 03:58 PM
There's a map....

Arkrite
11-13-2014, 04:03 PM
Now that would have been helpful to know earlier.

Charles Phipps
11-17-2014, 05:27 AM
They're already porting Rogue to PC and have more or less stated they're going to be doing the same for Xbox One and PS4. The game has been really well-received.

I *LOVE* it, personally.

The Assassins get a real wake-up call from the protagonist.

Nevius
11-17-2014, 09:21 AM
This brings up an interesting idea for me; can Assassin's Creed work in the M&M system? I mean, sure the combat could be made to fit, but what about the exploration and other aspects of the gameplay? And would it be possible to make a group dynamic work with multiple Assassins?

Charles Phipps
11-20-2014, 10:04 AM
This brings up an interesting idea for me; can Assassin's Creed work in the M&M system? I mean, sure the combat could be made to fit, but what about the exploration and other aspects of the gameplay? And would it be possible to make a group dynamic work with multiple Assassins?

That's an interesting question. I imagine the M&M system would benefit from the Assassins using the upper-level human rules 5-7 PP points with only the top tier like Ezio and Altair being the Batman-level PL 10 types.

They'd probably have strike abilities too and immunity to falling damage.

:-)

Super Senses 1 for Eagle Sight?

Charles Phipps
11-20-2014, 10:48 AM
Oh, for anyone who is interested, here's my spoiler and non-spoiler reviews of AC: Rogue.

Non-Spoiler: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2014/11/assassins-creed-rogue-non-spoiler-review.html

Spoiler: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2014/11/assassins-creed-rogue-spoiler-review.html

Nevius
11-20-2014, 11:07 AM
That's an interesting question. I imagine the M&M system would benefit from the Assassins using the upper-level human rules 5-7 PP points with only the top tier like Ezio and Altair being the Batman-level PL 10 types.

They'd probably have strike abilities too and immunity to falling damage.

:-)

Super Senses 1 for Eagle Sight?

Makes a guy want to GM an AC game.

And yeah, probably high ranks of Close Attack, Improved Critical, things like Wall-Crawling 1 and Sure-Footed to represent the Free-running. Eagle Vision would be a little tricky but I feel like it's almost a Visual Detect, but I wouldn't quite know what to do for the descriptors.

Charles Phipps
11-20-2014, 05:46 PM
Makes a guy want to GM an AC game.

And yeah, probably high ranks of Close Attack, Improved Critical, things like Wall-Crawling 1 and Sure-Footed to represent the Free-running. Eagle Vision would be a little tricky but I feel like it's almost a Visual Detect, but I wouldn't quite know what to do for the descriptors.

Yeah, it's more, "Sense plot relevant stuff."

That and maybe sense hostile forces.

Good ideas, though.

Stormson
11-21-2014, 02:42 PM
Unity was nowhere near as bad as people have painted it IMHO, and I liked that it was actually a stealth focused game, unlike the past AC games where you just play a super warrior.

I also think they made the same mistake DA2 did, in that the game is about the characters, not the events. As a retelling of the French revolution, it's completely terrible. As the telling of two people chasing revenge, it worked well. Its not something a lot of people like, it seems, but I enjoyed it.

That first day was TERRIBLE tho, glitch wise. The first patch improved its stability a lot, and Im more forgiving on early releases on new console generations, generally speaking.

Kyle
11-27-2014, 06:16 AM
I'm finally getting into AssCreed Rogue, and so far I'm really enjoying it. The shift in perspective is interesting, and I like how it bridges 3 and Black Flag. I got a bit of a continuity nerd thrill seeing Adewale and Achilles working together.

One thing that's stood out to me is that Shay is the first playable character in the series whom I can remember being openly religious. Part of the dichotomy between the Assassins and the Templars has always been that the religion is one of the methods the Templars use to control, while I've generally got the impression that most of the Assassin characters are more or less aware of the precursor society, and thus somewhat agnostic if not outright atheist. Of course, that could just be me projecting onto the characters.

However, Shay is pretty obviously Catholic. It makes me wonder if that was intentional to set him apart from the other playable characters in the series, and how much it's going to play into the story.

Charles Phipps
11-27-2014, 11:00 AM
I'm finally getting into AssCreed Rogue, and so far I'm really enjoying it. The shift in perspective is interesting, and I like how it bridges 3 and Black Flag. I got a bit of a continuity nerd thrill seeing Adewale and Achilles working together.

One thing that's stood out to me is that Shay is the first playable character in the series whom I can remember being openly religious. Part of the dichotomy between the Assassins and the Templars has always been that the religion is one of the methods the Templars use to control, while I've generally got the impression that most of the Assassin characters are more or less aware of the precursor society, and thus somewhat agnostic if not outright atheist. Of course, that could just be me projecting onto the characters.

However, Shay is pretty obviously Catholic. It makes me wonder if that was intentional to set him apart from the other playable characters in the series, and how much it's going to play into the story.

Interesting. I didn't get that impression. Of course, Altair is the only atheist character who is confirmed and I thought Ezio was Catholic while Connor was also religious in his people's beliefs. The Assassins and Templars include atheists and agnostics in their ranks but we had that one nun/madame who believed sex was a way to reach God.

That is interesting, though.

Kyle
11-27-2014, 02:38 PM
Obviously I could be wrong, but I don't remember any instance of Ezio being overtly religious. However, given the way AssCreed 2 ends, I think there's a fairly strong argument that if Ezio is Catholic he's pretty terrible at it. Though apparently there is a scene where he walks in on his sister while she's praying.

Connor's beliefs aren't really touched upon either, except in the context of his tribe. When he has his spiritual vision though, it's a result of a precursor artifact, which makes me wonder if the implication isn't that precursor technology and/or genetic memories are the inspiration for much first nations beliefs.

Aveline's mentor, Agaté, does practice voodoo. So did his mentor, and another former assassin in Liberty who turned into a cult leader. They're the only assassins other than Shay that I can think of with an explicitly stated belief structure.

It could be that most of the Assassins are the faith of whatever culture they were born into, and that would make perfect sense. It just that religion is referenced so infrequently for a historical fiction, and usually when it does come up it's portrayed in a negative light. Shay's explicit Catholicism struck me as an interesting divergence from the other assassins.

Kyle
11-30-2014, 03:00 AM
Finished the story for Rogue -- still a ton of side quests and collectibles to deal with -- and I have to say, I'm a bit underwhelmed. Not sure what I was expecting, and I know the game probably didn't get nearly as much focus as Unity, but in the end, I didn't find it very compelling. As a protagonist, Shay is fairly unremarkable, and the present day characters' motivations for exploring his memories are disappointingly mundane.

SPOILERS The notion that the Assassin Brotherhood is going to be demoralised by finding out that sometimes Assassins join the Templars is so ridiculously simplistic, it almost feels like it was added in as a place holder until someone was able to come up with something better, and then never revisited. The Brotherhood is painfully aware of the fact that sometimes Assassins turn Templar, considering Daniel Cross straight up murdered their leader before eventually being killed by Desmond. And yeah, not everyone is going to be familiar with back matter that originated in the comics and is only mentioned if you pick-up specific collectables, but still. END SPOILER

A lot of people complained about Desmond, but I feel like the games have lost something by not having him to tie everything together.

I think I'm going to hold off on Unity for a while. I've got a small stack of unplayed games and some DLC to play catch-up with -- and I really want to play through all three Mass Effect games again -- and after Rogue I'm not really champing at the bit to play more AssCreed right now.

Charles Phipps
12-01-2014, 02:35 PM
I don't think Ezio was overly religious and certainly not to the point getting in a fist-fight wih the Pope bothered him. He did, however, think the courtesan nuns ideas were strange, mentions God a few times, and is open to the idea of the Precursors being deities. I didn't get the impression he'd rejected superstition for science the way Altair took as a doctrine, though. I think the Templars and Assassins, generally, both have a mixture of religious and non, though.

As for the demoralization issue, I think it's more the fact Shay is a Assassin who turned to the Templars for moral reasons rather than the usual "power and control" ones. Also, the realization the Assassins were behind the [insert spoiler] is going to be a blow to their pride. As we see with William and Rebecca, the Assassins belief they're "the good guys" is something that keeps them going and it's something we see with the 18th century colonial assassins too.

Of course, Juhani really misread Shay too because Shay didn't join because he loved order. Shay joined because of very personal reasons.

Kyle
12-03-2014, 02:34 AM
So, they've announced that next year's [hopefully only] AssCreed will be set in Victorian England. I haven't quite managed to get the sour taste of Rogue out of my mouth -- would probably help if I stopped hunting for collectibles, but that's just crazy talk -- but I'm still excited about the prospect of skulking about British alleyways and being assaulted with terrible accents. Because I am an addict.

Jack the Ripper: Templar or rogue Assassin?

Nevius
12-05-2014, 02:48 PM
A cool setting that's lousy with atmosphere (and actual lice) but Victorian London wasn't exactly a hotbed of turmoil and upheaval. The Holy Lands during the Third Crusade, Renaissance Italy, the Colonies during the American Revolution, and the Golden Age of Piracy are all pretty hectic and chaotic times. By contrast, Victorian London was pretty tame. Granted the developers can shoe-horn in a new First Civilization McGuffin for everyone to freak out about, but am I the only one who feels that AssCreed is becoming like the Madden series, or CoD? Minor changes and tweaks to the exact same format?

If I'm going to be skulking around narrow alleyways and killing people doing Cockney accents, I'd much rather have Dishonored 2.

Kyle
12-07-2014, 10:21 PM
Think I'm finally finished with Rogue. Got all the collectibles and costumes, did all the side quests, fully upgraded my boat -- except for all the whaling aspects, because I'm not a monster -- defeated the legendary ship encounters.

The only thing I gave up on is the naval campaign mini-game, which is more or less the opposite of fun. I wanted to complete the mini-game because it's the only way to unlock the best sword set, but it takes forever. There are 33 "missions", but mission can only be used in the loosest sense of the term. You press the button, wait for it to finish. You have to fix any damage to the ships, but that just requires you have the money to pay for repairs. There's zero skill required, unless you count the naval battles need to amass your fleet -- which is a lot of fun -- but that's something you do outside the mini-game. At the point where I gave up, it was taking my fastest ships over an hour and a half to complete a mission, and I was just over half way through. You can't unlock new missions until the proceeding one is finished, so there's no way to cut down on time by running multiple missions at once. And yes, it's running in the background, so it's fairly unobtrusive, but considering the number of missions and the increasing length of each mission, it still requires a ridiculous amount of time waiting for a prompt to tell you that it's time to go hit the button to start the next fleet mission.

I was convinced this was an example of Ubisoft obnoxiously pricing gouging by making the only means to get the best weapons in the game reliant on subjecting oneself to the worst feature, but near as I can tell, despite the fact that they offer micro-transactions for pretty much everything else, there's no way to pay to unlock the swords. It's do the crappy mini-game or go without.

On the plus side, I did stumble across a really fun easter egg. SPOILER Going to the graveyard in Sleepy Hollow at night causes the Headless Horseman to attack you! /SPOILER

Phrozen
12-14-2014, 09:25 PM
So, they've announced that next year's [hopefully only] AssCreed will be set in Victorian England. I haven't quite managed to get the sour taste of Rogue out of my mouth -- would probably help if I stopped hunting for collectibles, but that's just crazy talk -- but I'm still excited about the prospect of skulking about British alleyways and being assaulted with terrible accents. Because I am an addict.

Jack the Ripper: Templar or rogue Assassin?

The Victorian era works but you would have to set it in India or if a little earlier in the 1800s Greece during the Greek War of Independence.

Charles Phipps
05-15-2015, 04:36 PM
Anywho, I actually waited to play Unity until I felt it was sufficiently patched up for a good long time and so my review of the games is appallingly late. There's absolutely no one left in the world who is probably going to buy this game who would be influenced by my opinion and certainly not on these boards. However, if you want to read this long-time fan's view of the game, then I've included it here anyway.

As customary, the review is divided into spoiler and non-spoiler.

Non-Spoiler Review (http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2015/05/assassins-creed-unity-non-spoiler-review.html)

Spoiler Review (http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2015/05/assassins-creed-unity-spoiler-review.html)

I hope you enjoy.

Stormson
05-18-2015, 07:11 AM
I liked Arno. I felt like he was a good character, but a terrible assassin, at least, in this game. I suspect there was a plan for him to get a few games to tell his own story like Ezio had, detailing his change at the end of the game.

With the firestorm around Unity's release, I suspect that's not going to happen.

Phrozen
05-21-2015, 09:48 PM
So 1868 for Syndicate is kind of an odd year. Not much happening in Britain.

Precursor to the Salvation Army founded by William Booth.
Last public hanging in the UK.
Alfred, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh is shot in the back but that happened in Australia.
Last Penal ship arrives in Australia
Punitive Expedition to Abyssinia.

Really, the place in turmoil was Japan with the Boshin War and the start of the Meiji Restoration.

Charles Phipps
05-22-2015, 03:44 PM
So 1868 for Syndicate is kind of an odd year. Not much happening in Britain.

Precursor to the Salvation Army founded by William Booth.
Last public hanging in the UK.
Alfred, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh is shot in the back but that happened in Australia.
Last Penal ship arrives in Australia
Punitive Expedition to Abyssinia.

Really, the place in turmoil was Japan with the Boshin War and the start of the Meiji Restoration.

It seems someone in Ubisoft hates Assassin's Creed and history so they picked a time nothing was happening.

Kyle
05-22-2015, 10:15 PM
I think they can probably get away with having a lot of things happening "behind the scenes," so to speak, and rely on the pop culture notion of Victorian England that exists.

It's similar to how with AssCreed III, despite the American Civil War being a period of significant turmoil, the story was actually hindered by having Connor too involved with all these events which are very familiar to their largest demo for these games. Also, having all these very well known historical figures, the majority of whom lived through the events didn't help. Charles Lee's somewhat less than flattering depiction in the game can likely be attributed to need for Connor to have someone to kill.

AssCreed games seem to work best when they have some room to breathe within the history they're portraying. If Syndicate is more about the atmosphere than any events of historical import, I don't see that as necessarily being a bad thing.


I actually just started working my way through Unity, and while the gameplay is fun, there's also a lot of frustrating aspects. Particularly, tying Arno's upgrades to a skill point system, and requiring that you play their terrible co-op missions multiple times to unlock those skill points is a horrible feature. Being able to do the co-op missions solo is great, but they drag on way too long and the sheer density of enemies is ridiculous. Granted, I'm awful when it comes to stealth aspect of games in general, but I can't imagine there being a way to get through the co-op missions I've done without triggering a giant fight.

There's also just too much going on. Paris is so sprawling and cluttered with side missions that it's really distracting from the main quest line. Sure, I tend to try and do as much as I can before triggering progression, so a lot of that is on me, but I really have no idea what's going on with the story, and I'm about a third of the way through. I guess the Assassins are opposed to the revolution? Maybe? I'm too busy running around solving murders -- my favourite new feature -- and just trying to figure out Nostradamus riddles.

On the plus side, I do really like the new weapon system. Being able to choose between different weapon styles is pretty great. I also like that some of the weapons are non-lethal, so I don't need to feel too bad about accidentally clobbering a guard when I'm trying to dispatch some thugs who were harassing a civilian. How my polearm with a giant, spiked ball on the end is non-lethal I'm not entirely certain, but I'm not going to argue.

Also, I do like Arno as a character. He's definitely intended to be similar to Ezio, but feels distinct enough to be his own character.

Phrozen
05-22-2015, 10:33 PM
It seems someone in Ubisoft hates Assassin's Creed and history so they picked a time nothing was happening.

Japan would of been better. It was a period of tremendous social upheaval. Also, in this case the Assassins supporting the Emperor would be a good thing as he was getting rid of the last vestiges of the feudal system.

Voltron64
05-23-2015, 04:04 PM
Japan would of been better. It was a period of tremendous social upheaval. Also, in this case the Assassins supporting the Emperor would be a good thing as he was getting rid of the last vestiges of the feudal system.

Plus y'know, Rurouni Kenshin.

;)

Charles Phipps
05-23-2015, 06:30 PM
Japan would of been better. It was a period of tremendous social upheaval. Also, in this case the Assassins supporting the Emperor would be a good thing as he was getting rid of the last vestiges of the feudal system.

Honestly, my only real objection to that is Japanese politics and ninja might distract a little too much from the traditional themes of the series given they've been covered so well by other games.

I want to see The Thirty Years War, Civil War, and Napoleonic Wars on my end.

Charles Phipps
05-26-2015, 01:31 AM
Here's my review of the DLC "Dead Kings."

Not really all that impressive but necessary character development.

http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2015/05/assassins-creed-unity-dead-kings-dlc.html