PDA

View Full Version : The Flash TV show



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Bladewind
10-08-2014, 06:35 AM
So, did I miss a thread that got started ?

This one I liked out of the gates. I could settle into watching it without having to wait for it to improve. It was good on its own merits, established out of the gate that it was in the same setting as Arrow, and left it easily open for cross-overs between the two without leading us on...

I loved the origins of the suit. It makes sense,why it was created, even if they have a wicked tailor to custom fit it so well... ;)
Some of my reasons for liking:



Barry`s father was such a wonderful easter egg. The Flash from the 90s TVseries !!! - Highlight back to last period for what it was.
Another great tease was the newspaper at the end of the episode suggesting a crisis style event (in white again for spoilers).
I was dissapointed that Mardon didn`t have the weather wizard`s wand, but in the context of the show it makes sense.
On the subject of Mardon... the look and attitude were great. The Weather Wizard`s greatest shortcoming has always been that he thinks too small - he can control the bloody weather and robs banks ! - and this was play off well with minimal cheese.
In the previews on YouTube et al, I was worried that the dialogue was going to be stilted and exagerated, (example - the exchange between Barry and Arrow) but even though it was the same line, I didn`t find it as exagerated or pronounced as in the trailers...
Barry saying "cool" to Arrow`s leap of the roof... Arrow`s saying `cool" in response to Barry`s speed...

savijmuhdrox
10-08-2014, 10:35 AM
Oh hell yeah.. agreement on all fronts.

You've got Smallville, which took like 5 seasons to finally hit a good stride.. and then Arrow which supposedly took an entire first season before it got real good. (I say supposedly because I'm waiting for Season 2 to drop on netflix, and while Season 1 was cool, i did feel like it could do more)..

and the Flash.. boom.. he hits the ground running (love that pun)

best thing about Mardon.. was the hair.. sure it wasn't the right color.. but they totally nailed how he always has this lock of hair flying around on his forehead.. and the collar was a little subdued.. but it was there.

and then the preview reel of the season to come... WOOT!!!

i defnlee wanna gush on that one, but i will not spoil anything for those of the ronin who like DVR.

badpenny
10-08-2014, 10:46 AM
I loved it and I'm not even remotely a Flash fan. I can't wait for Grodd to make his appearance. Nice easter egg on that one.

SuperFerret
10-08-2014, 10:57 AM
I loved it. I'm glad that it doesn't seem to be shying away from the craziness that comes with the subject matter. My one gripe is the scene with Green Arrow, as it felt very forced in.

ghostman76
10-08-2014, 12:09 PM
Add me to the "Loved It" pile. The premiere was excellent on all fronts. From top to bottom this show hit every mark that I could want from a T.V. superhero show. It a world where most shows featuring super powers like seem to hesitate to actually embrace their comic roots, either for reasons of budget or they are just afraid the audience won't connect with it, it's nice to see The Flash just go for it in a big way!

In fact, the only thing I could nitpick was the characterization of Iris. I'm far form an expert on Barry's surrounding cast of characters...Wally has always been my Flash of choice, but they played Iris to be...well, not very intelligent. Her line in the beginning about twerking made my eyes roll. Luckily it was right at the start of the episode with no follow up, but it made me wonder why someone as obviously smart as Barry would be pining for her, especially since they were raised in the same house in a pseudo brother / sister style. That was kinda creepy.

But otherwise, stellar season opener....can't wait to see more.

Bladewind
10-08-2014, 12:56 PM
I can't wait for Grodd to make his appearance. Nice easter egg on that one.

I cannot believe I forgot to mention that one !

kingk
10-08-2014, 02:01 PM
I loved it for reasons that have been better outlined above, but I just want to point something out about Weather Wizard:

We only see Clyde Mardon, but my understanding from online research (having never read anything with Weather Wizard in it) is that he is traditionally Mark Mardon. Clyde is mentioned has having a brother, but we never see him in this episode (presumably to allow him to be cast and used later on), who may well develop powers or gadgets.

Given that the teasers for the rest of the season show that Captain Cold will be using his gun, not gaining powers as I first suspected (given that the show looked to be using the particle accelerator as the origin for all powers in Central City), we could see a Weather Wizard with a wand.

savijmuhdrox
10-08-2014, 02:30 PM
I think it was heavily implied that Mardon's brother died in the plane crash.. but since there is a lot of brotherly history to the actual character i suppose anything is possible.

I didn't notice Captain Cold with a gun in the season preview stuff.. but that would be cool.. that.. and those weird glasses he's always wearing..

Based on rumors.. I'm excited to see Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell on screen together again.. rumored to both be rogues..

kingk
10-08-2014, 07:41 PM
Captain Cold preview images (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=56088). Between this and Arrow, I never thought I'd be this psyched about a CW show.

Kyle
10-08-2014, 09:10 PM
Does anyone know if there was much difference, if any, the episode that aired and the pilot that was leaked a few months back?

luketheduke86
10-09-2014, 12:50 AM
Oh yea, the pilot was fantastic and I'm very excited for the rest of the season. My only real gripe was the fate of Weather Wizard and hope it doesn't become a reoccurring theme. But if they do what I think they're going to do-
We only see Clyde Mardon, but my understanding from online research (having never read anything with Weather Wizard in it) is that he is traditionally Mark Mardon. Clyde is mentioned has having a brother, but we never see him in this episode (presumably to allow him to be cast and used later on), who may well develop powers or gadgets.
-then all is well.


You've got Smallville, which took like 5 seasons to finally hit a good stride.. and then Arrow which supposedly took an entire first season before it got real good. (I say supposedly because I'm waiting for Season 2 to drop on netflix, and while Season 1 was cool, i did feel like it could do more)..
IMO, Season 2 of Arrow was much better than Season 1 and I liked Season 1 quite a bit. Also they do have Season 2 of Arrow on Netflix now, so start watching! 8)

Yeoman
10-09-2014, 10:49 AM
Oh yea, the pilot was fantastic and I'm very excited for the rest of the season. My only real gripe was the fate of Weather Wizard and hope it doesn't become a reoccurring theme. But if they do what I think they're going to do-
-then all is well.

Yeah, I caught that during the watching. They never show his brother so they can cast him later.


IMO, Season 2 of Arrow was much better than Season 1 and I liked Season 1 quite a bit. Also they do have Season 2 of Arrow on Netflix now, so start watching! 8)

Personally, I liked Season 1 better, it was darker, with a darker take on Green Arrow than I'd like, but I felt it worked better. Season 2 started falling into the traps of trying to do metahumans in a realistic setting, and without the budget to do them properly.


As for this... I have one major gripe. They need some Arrow level twists to show they aren't necessarily sticking to something close to comics. And they need it soon. Because five minutes into this I'm yelling: "That Guy. That guy right there. He's the Reverse Flash. Shoot him in the face."

Bladewind
10-09-2014, 10:59 AM
As for this... I have one major gripe. They need some Arrow level twists to show they aren't necessarily sticking to something close to comics. And they need it soon. Because five minutes into this I'm yelling: "That Guy. That guy right there. He's the Reverse Flash. Shoot him in the face."

Except... he`s not. That was Eddie Thawn. The Reverse Flash is Eobard Thawn... :cool:

kingk
10-09-2014, 12:57 PM
Does anyone know if there was much difference, if any, the episode that aired and the pilot that was leaked a few months back?

Having seen both, not that I could tell. Perhaps the yellow lightning that occurs during the fade to black at the very end, but that may have just not been in the video of the pilot that my friend showed me.


My only real gripe was the fate of Weather Wizard and hope it doesn't become a reoccurring theme.

There was an interview with one of the writers/producers (I forget which) that I saw somewhere, and they said that most of Barry's villains are going to be caught and arrested, since he will refuse to kill them, but he and the rest of the Central City police department will have to deal with trying to contain metahumans. Makes sense, because then you could have the Rogues meet in prison, form a team, and then stage a jail break.

savijmuhdrox
10-09-2014, 01:04 PM
Except... he`s not. That was Eddie Thawn. The Reverse Flash is Eobard Thawn... :cool:

Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnn.

Is it an ancestor? Or the evil reverse flash in disguise? or a super fan of the Flash from the future who's going to go insane????

From all the hype and rumors that have leaked in, despite the mental barriers I put up against them.. I just wanna say...

BRING. ON. THE. VILLAINS.

Captain Cold, Heatwave, Weather Wizard, Multiplex, some guy who turns into smoke, Girder...

Girder?!?!? The dude who's pretty much relegated to 'that guy' status any time a collage is put together; gets to be on TV?? just awesome.

You've got Marvel who won't even put Donnie Gill in a costume.. and you've got DC who's tapping the bottom of the character bucket to see who else falls out..

"anyone else in there?"

"just me."

"Who're you?"

"Girder"

"oh.. that guy.. sure, have fun"

savijmuhdrox
10-09-2014, 01:06 PM
There was an interview with one of the writers/producers (I forget which) that I saw somewhere, and they said that most of Barry's villains are going to be caught and arrested, since he will refuse to kill them, but he and the rest of the Central City police department will have to deal with trying to contain metahumans. Makes sense, because then you could have the Rogues meet in prison, form a team, and then stage a jail break.


or you know.. a Prison Break.

sorry. couldn't help myself.

Yeoman
10-09-2014, 01:32 PM
You've got Marvel who won't even put Donnie Gill in a costume.. and you've got DC who's tapping the bottom of the character bucket to see who else falls out..


Marvel: 2 Invisible Jets
DC: 0 Invisible Jets.

Let's not play the "Who's willing to go where" game right now, yes? :) We can talk if Grodd actually shows up as a telepathic talking Gorilla.

savijmuhdrox
10-09-2014, 01:44 PM
Duly Noted for future reference.

thought technically.. if the jet is invisible.. then...

lulz.

though another item of reference..

Times Actor Jesse L. Martin has told a super-villain to 'shut the hell up'

Marvel: 0

DC: 1

ghostman76
10-09-2014, 02:10 PM
As for this... I have one major gripe. They need some Arrow level twists to show they aren't necessarily sticking to something close to comics. And they need it soon. Because five minutes into this I'm yelling: "That Guy. That guy right there. He's the Reverse Flash. Shoot him in the face."

I caught that too....but I'm wondering if he isn't a red herring. I probably need to see the premiere again to make sure, but I thought the reveal at the very end of the episode sort of implied to those who know that the Reverse Flash may not be who we think he is.

Haven't there been more than one guy who used that name?

Also...even if it does turn out that Thrawn is Zoom, there was absolutely no reason given in the episode that the characters should suspect him of anything, other than having kind of a douche bag cocky grin. It kinda ups the tension for we in the audience to know enough to be suspicious of him, yet the characters on the show just think he's a great cop.

Yeoman
10-09-2014, 02:34 PM
Duly Noted for future reference.

thought technically.. if the jet is invisible.. then...

lulz.

though another item of reference..

Times Actor Jesse L. Martin has told a super-villain to 'shut the hell up'

Marvel: 0

DC: 1

DC: Wonder Woman is too complicated.

Marvel: Here is a talking Raccoon with a Machine Gun. Who you will forge a deeper emotional connection with than any character in Man of Steel.


I caught that too....but I'm wondering if he isn't a red herring. I probably need to see the premiere again to make sure, but I thought the reveal at the very end of the episode sort of implied to those who know that the Reverse Flash may not be who we think he is.

Haven't there been more than one guy who used that name?

Hunter Zoloman was the second Zoom.


Also...even if it does turn out that Thrawn is Zoom,

We'd know if Thrawn was Zoom. He has blue skin and glowing eyes. :)

Woop woop woop woop woop! ((Zoidberg sidles away))

catsi563
10-09-2014, 02:52 PM
A list of easter eggs in the flash premiere (http://screenrant.com/flash-tv-series-easter-eggs-comic-refrences/)

ghostman76
10-09-2014, 03:39 PM
We'd know if Thrawn was Zoom. He has blue skin and glowing eyes. :)

Woop woop woop woop woop! ((Zoidberg sidles away))

Oooohhh you! They told me about you, but did I listen? Noooooo. hehe

Bladewind
10-09-2014, 07:05 PM
Marvel: 2 Invisible Jets
DC: 0 Invisible Jets.

Let's not play the "Who's willing to go where" game right now, yes? :) We can talk if Grodd actually shows up as a telepathic talking Gorilla.

DC has tons of invisible jets. You just can't see them because, well, invisible !

But Grodd referenced in the pilot begs telepathic gorilla because otherwise fans will be miffed. You don't tease that one and not deliver !

On a side note... The Reverse Flash suit (http://screencrush.com/the-flash-reverse-professor-zoom-cw-costume-set-photos/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_286746) looks pretty awesome...

ghostman76
10-09-2014, 07:40 PM
Agreed....that Zoom costume looks awesome!

Yeoman
10-09-2014, 11:04 PM
DC has tons of invisible jets. You just can't see them because, well, invisible !

But Grodd referenced in the pilot begs telepathic gorilla because otherwise fans will be miffed. You don't tease that one and not deliver !


Yeah, given DC's history, even with Arrow's better batting average, I am prepared to be disappointed. Besides, Telepathic Evil Gorilla is just the, "okay, fine" level. I want A city of talking Gorillas.

Kyle
10-09-2014, 11:09 PM
Personally I'll be happy if we see Captain Cold wearing a blue parka and snow goggles, or if they make a legitimate attempt at Mirror Master without having his powers be based on a new hallucinogenic street drug.

I'm easy to please.

savijmuhdrox
10-10-2014, 04:47 AM
Personally I'll be happy if we see Captain Cold wearing a blue parka and snow goggles, or if they make a legitimate attempt at Mirror Master without having his powers be based on a new hallucinogenic street drug.

I'm easy to please.

Yeah.. i'm in this camp. Lets get some of the simpler things done first (costume tweaks) before we go all Gorilla City...

Though i still think talking gorilla is just not gonna translate well.. damn dirty apes..

Stormson
10-10-2014, 06:48 AM
Marvel: Here is a talking Raccoon with a Machine Gun. Who you will forge a deeper emotional connection with than any character in Man of Steel.


and said raccoon will actually make an effort to stop civilian casualties and save more lives than Superman did in that movie.

ghostman76
10-10-2014, 07:01 AM
Personally I'll be happy if we see Captain Cold wearing a blue parka and snow goggles, or if they make a legitimate attempt at Mirror Master without having his powers be based on a new hallucinogenic street drug. I'm easy to please.


Ask and ye shall recieve....Here's Captain Cold. He's wearing a blue parka, he's wearing polorized goggles, and he has a freakin' super science cold gun! How awesome is that?

http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/news/first-look-wentworth-millers-captain-cold-flash/122275

As for Grodd, it seems likely that they are going to go with Grodd being another product of the S.T.A.R. Labs collider mishap, whether that is what gives him his powers and intelligence, or if they were already doing some sort of gene therapy to bring that about and the explosion just exacerbates that who can say? I doubt they go with the full on Gorilla City backstory.

However...and this is just complete conjecture on my part...after Grodd's first real appearance and battle with Flash, there's nothing to say that they won't imply that he goes to the jungle to set up a place "for his kind" or that he plans to create more intelligent gorilla's like himself. A sort of cart before the horse type thing, or that Grodd spawns Gorilla City, vs. Gorilla City spawning Grodd. As I said, that's just my half-assed theory of what they could do.

Bladewind
10-10-2014, 07:19 AM
Yeah, given DC's history, even with Arrow's better batting average, I am prepared to be disappointed. Besides, Telepathic Evil Gorilla is just the, "okay, fine" level. I want A city of talking Gorillas.

Well if a Gorilla Tape commercial can look reasonably good, and I assume that the budget for that is fairly low...I don't see why Grodd is that much to ask for.
By reasonably good, you look at it and smirk as opposed to roll your eyes.

http://image.cdn.ispot.tv/ad/7bhX/gorilla-tape-gorilla-helps-hang-a-tarp-large-10.jpg

Yeoman
10-10-2014, 08:10 AM
and said raccoon will actually make an effort to stop civilian casualties and save more lives than Superman did in that movie.

Let's be fair, the Recent Godzilla movie had the king of all monsters go further out of his way to prevent civilian casualties than Superman did in that movie.

Bladewind
10-10-2014, 09:44 AM
Off topic, but I wonder if the Man of Steel would have worked better as a Wonder Woman movie...

Arkrite
10-10-2014, 10:18 AM
I don't know that Henry Cavill could pull off the bustier look ;~)

Kyle
10-10-2014, 10:31 AM
Ask and ye shall recieve....Here's Captain Cold. He's wearing a blue parka, he's wearing polorized goggles, and he has a freakin' super science cold gun! How awesome is that?

http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/news/first-look-wentworth-millers-captain-cold-flash/122275

If that parka was a bit brighter shade of blue, it would be perfect.

I really hope some of this superhero silliness bleeds into 'Arrow'.

ghostman76
10-10-2014, 11:18 AM
If that parka was a bit brighter shade of blue, it would be perfect.

I really hope some of this superhero silliness bleeds into 'Arrow'.

You know what makes me happy with that second picture? If you look closely (I very nearly missed it myself), you can see the bit of fringe sticking up over his back on the hood of his parka that he has down currently. Which means there's a good chance that we will see him with the hood up at some point, thus making him look even more like his comic counterpart.

kingk
10-14-2014, 06:24 PM
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed tonight's episode. And they left themselves an out with the villain too, so he can always return. But, that last scene, wow.

Bladewind
10-14-2014, 07:18 PM
What does this show have that the other shows in the genre... Interesting characters.

Having more than one Flash to draw on is letting them modernize the mythos, and dropping hints of characters to come seens less forced...

Psistrike
10-14-2014, 09:29 PM
And next week we get The Mist, who is definitely one of the more deadly of his foes, since he can take on the form of toxic gas. And I couldn't even find Multiplex's stats in the DCA character guides.

Kyle
10-15-2014, 12:16 AM
And I couldn't even find Multiplex's stats in the DCA character guides.

He has his own entry in Heroes & Villains vol 2. Which, y'know, good for him considering he's a Firestorm villain who hasn't appeared in much outside of the comics. Speaking of Firestorm villains, I really hope that when Captain Cold finally appears, they have Caitlin geek out over his freeze gun after it's been confiscated or something.

I liked this episode, but it bothered me how much time they spent trying to explain the science behind Multiplex's powers. Just have him make doubles of himself because of magic lightning storm particle accelerator explosion powers; all the talk of stem cells and organ cloning experiments starts to call in to question how he's able to duplicate his clothes, or functioning pistols. I get the desire to ground the show in some semblance of realism, but I feel as though they'd be better served by hand waving a lot of that aside. Especially as they start to get into dumb time-travel territory.

On the plus side, I really like that the show isn't, for lack of a better term, embarrassed by all the goofy superhero trappings. Having Cisco come with supervillain names right away, and already having at least one person refer to Barry as the Flash is a really nice touch. I'm betting it will only be one or two more episodes before everyone starts using the name after Iris coins it for her journalism project or something. 'Arrow' could benefit from following suit.

saint_matthew
10-15-2014, 01:26 AM
I liked this episode, but it bothered me how much time they spent trying to explain the science behind Multiplex's powers. Just have him make doubles of himself because of magic lightning storm particle accelerator explosion powers; all the talk of stem cells and organ cloning experiments starts to call in to question how he's able to duplicate his clothes, or functioning pistols.

LOL, I was wondering when someone else was going to bring that up. Yeah the attempt to ground it in science actually did the opposite of its intended task, it actually showed where the weaknesses in the concept were. Simply saying magic lightning storm particle accelerator explosion powers would have sufficed & would have explained how it also duplicate his clothes and weapon, after all its magic lightning storm particle accelerator explosion powers & magic lightning storm particle accelerator explosion powers can do anything... Stem cells, not so much so.


Especially as they start to get into dumb time-travel territory.

I'm going to call this now: Barry's father had something to do with the death of his wife.


On the plus side, I really like that the show isn't, for lack of a better term, embarrassed by all the goofy superhero trappings.

I wish they would go a little deeper on the goofy superhero trappings, but there is still time for that. Generally its a pretty good show.

Bladewind
10-15-2014, 06:05 AM
Clothes argument - you got me.

But weapons... he robbed a gun store at the beginning of the ep. Which brings up another question - where are the weapons stored when not in a duplicates hand ?

savijmuhdrox
10-15-2014, 06:24 AM
I coulda swore at one point when he multiplied, the 'prime' tossed guns to the other two. but then that wouldn't make sense with him doing what? tossing clothes to the others?

If they went thru enough trouble to have the show clue you in on how he got the guns, i'm guessing they had a reason for why his duplicates all wear the same clothes, possibly a version of what he was wearing when he was in the lab accident.. and it was probably cut due to the need to show other things.. like pepperoni/olive/jalapeno pizza.. BARF.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest Multiplex isn't dead.. which would be cool since i'm a sucker for multiple clone type characters...

and that ending.. whoo boy.. my head is spinning on whats going on with Tom Cavanaugh's character..

Bladewind
10-15-2014, 06:51 AM
Unstable Molecules ? Wait, wrong franchise. (I always find the commercial breaks funny as the adds for SHIELD - ie. Marvel - interrupt a DC sow)

I know ! The clothes were given powers by the Comics Code Authority and the PG rating system !

Kyle
10-15-2014, 08:08 AM
Clothes argument - you got me.

But weapons... he robbed a gun store at the beginning of the ep. Which brings up another question - where are the weapons stored when not in a duplicates hand ?

It's implied that he only stole six guns, but at the start of the big fight at Stag Industries, all of his dupes have one. So, either Joe is terrible at counting, or the gun store had a much larger inventory than it appeared, or Multiplex was busy and and that was only one of several gun stores he robbed.

Bladewind
10-15-2014, 12:36 PM
It's implied that he only stole six guns, but at the start of the big fight at Stag Industries, all of his dupes have one. So, either Joe is terrible at counting, or the gun store had a much larger inventory than it appeared, or Multiplex was busy and and that was only one of several gun stores he robbed.

Now that I think about it, all that was said was that there were at least six people involved. I don`t recall quantity of weapons being discussed.
On another note, I really find it neat the way that Barry`s forensic skills are displayed on screen...

saint_matthew
10-15-2014, 06:02 PM
Did any of you hear that Barrys father is actually being played by the guy who play The Flash in his own TV show? Apparently this is a thing that has happened.

Kyle
10-15-2014, 06:08 PM
Now that I think about it, all that was said was that there were at least six people involved. I don`t recall quantity of weapons being discussed.

I went back and checked. Joe specifies that it was "at least six" handguns and extended ammo magazines. At least could imply that there were more, but it seems that if it was a lot more, that's something that would have noticed.

Bladewind
10-15-2014, 06:36 PM
Did any of you hear that Barrys father is actually being played by the guy who play The Flash in his own TV show? Apparently this is a thing that has happened.

Yep. The series is available on youtube...

I referenced it in the first post of the thread, putting that tidbit in spoiler-text... :p

Ares
10-15-2014, 08:46 PM
Yeah, the clothes thing made the Stem Cell explanation impossible. That kind of replicating should have meant that all the clones were naked. I would have just gone for some technobabble explanation. Something like:

"Well, his body absorbs excess kinetic energy, and uses that to create a temporary copy of his quantum signature, or basically an exact copy of how he is at that moment in space/time. So clothes, gear, it all gets copied. It seems that they're all still linked on that quantum level, so the prime can control them. When those duplicates use up that excess energy, they'll eventually just disperse into nothing."

Still, this show is pretty fun thus far. I don't mind seeing more.

Horsenhero
10-15-2014, 10:16 PM
Yes, there are plot holes big enough to drive a truck through. I don't care. Flash has been fun so far and I'm anticipating his showdown with The Mist next week. If we can't have Jay...at least we get one of his foes.

Just don't trot out the Fiddler.

Yeah and John Wesley Shipp is now playing Barry's dad, as opposed to Barry. I found the casting to be a nice nod. According to JWS, Grant Gustin has it good. Apparently the polypro costume from the old CBS show, didn't breathe and developed quite the funk...as well as being uncomfortable to wear.

Bladewind
10-16-2014, 04:49 AM
Not to mention it looks better. The JWS' version looked like it was carved out of Styrofoam...

http://www.ivid.it/fotogallery/imagesearch/images/flash_john_wesley_shipp_tf_003_jpg_drbx.jpg

savijmuhdrox
10-16-2014, 10:15 AM
I thought the old costume was awesome.

I was also 11.

Hmmmm... correlation? naaaaaah.

So the Mist is a Jay Garrick foe? Nice. There's so much in the works for this show, that I can't even begin to demand more.. but if at some point, Barry starts to meet other speedsters.. I will be ecstatic... Jay Garrick.. Max Mercury.. Let's do this!!!

Bladewind
10-16-2014, 10:23 AM
lol

I liked it at the time myself, (I was/ am a little older than you...) but in retrospect I find him/ it too muscular. The current Flash looks believable as a runner as opposed to that image who looks something like a strong guy type. Not that the two are exclusive, but...

As an aside, and smack me if I said this already... I really hope that Barry doesn`t need someone in his ear at the end of every ep telling him he can do it and to buck up and handle the situation. It worked for the first two eps, but I think that`s been done now.

Yeoman
10-16-2014, 10:29 AM
He has his own entry in Heroes & Villains vol 2. Which, y'know, good for him considering he's a Firestorm villain who hasn't appeared in much outside of the comics.

He was? Huh. I first ran into him during Johns' Flash run. But then 70's early 80's DC is usually my blind spot in comics.

Speaking of Firestorm, I noticed the woman who works at STAR Labs noted her dead Boyfriend's name was Ronnie. Who "died" in a freak accident that gave tons of people Super Powers. I'm calling he's not dead and his last name is Raymond.



Having Cisco come with supervillain names right away, and already having at least one person refer to Barry as the Flash is a really nice touch. I'm betting it will only be one or two more episodes before everyone starts using the name after Iris coins it for her journalism project or something. 'Arrow' could benefit from following suit.

It is kinda helpful to have the type of character that makes a habit of it. The current Ninja Turtles show uses Mikey for that purpose.

Bladewind
10-16-2014, 10:44 AM
Speaking of Firestorm, I noticed the woman who works at STAR Labs noted her dead Boyfriend's name was Ronnie. Who "died" in a freak accident that gave tons of people Super Powers. I'm calling he's not dead and his last name is Raymond.

Considering also that said woman is also the alter ego of Killer Frost... not to mention that Cisco is the alter ego of Vibe...

Yeoman
10-16-2014, 11:01 AM
Considering also that said woman is also the alter ego of Killer Frost...[/quote[

Did not know that. So, yeah, totally coming back as Firestorm.

[quote] not to mention that Cisco is the alter ego of Vibe...

Hey, if this show manages to make Vibe not suck it will do something 30 years of comics haven't.

savijmuhdrox
10-16-2014, 12:09 PM
Considering also that said woman is also the alter ego of Killer Frost... not to mention that Cisco is the alter ego of Vibe...

But she will always be near and dear to our hearts as Layle, the plant girl.

Horsenhero
10-16-2014, 12:14 PM
Firestorm will almost certainly make an appearance, since Robbie Amell has signed on for more episodes (he played Ronnie in his single scene in the pilot) and the show has cast television veteran Victor Garber to play Prof. Martin Stein.

Sorry to Jason Rusch fans, but it doesn't look like he's in the cards at the moment.

Ares
10-16-2014, 12:22 PM
Hey, if this show manages to make Vibe not suck it will do something 30 years of comics haven't.

And all they had to do was completely jettison everything but the character's name and race to do it!

Horsenhero
10-16-2014, 12:42 PM
And all they had to do was completely jettison everything but the character's name and race to do it!

Sure. Much like Dazzler, Vibe was pretty much dependent on a popular trend (breakdancing). Since that has faded into the background of popular culture... for the betterment of all mankind...and the comic version of the character is dead, that left them with a blank slate to work with. Without a doubt, just like several interpretations of characters in Arrow, there will be more characters who deviate from their comicbook origins as the show goes on.

I mean Grodd is likely to make an appearance at some point and it's about 99.9% likely he won't hail from a hidden civilization of intelligent apes.

Yeoman
10-16-2014, 01:36 PM
Sure. Much like Dazzler, Vibe was pretty much dependent on a popular trend (breakdancing). Since that has faded into the background of popular culture... for the betterment of all mankind...and the comic version of the character is dead, that left them with a blank slate to work with.

Dazzler though has idea that she was a moderately talented musical artist with a gimmick (Mystique is a fan), and that still works and can and has been adapted. Vibe, by all accounts, sucks so bad George Perez refuses to draw him.



I mean Grodd is likely to make an appearance at some point and it's about 99.9% likely he won't hail from a hidden civilization of intelligent apes.

Which is why Marvel is still winning. :)

Horsenhero
10-16-2014, 04:13 PM
Well, Perez has drawn Vibe (in group shots), but I understand the sentiment. Then again, the entire "Detroit" Justice League was like a bad Teen Titans line up. Sure, everyone likes Martian Manhunter and Vixen and Aquaman is a league stalwart, but Vibe? Steel? Gypsy? Oy vey.

Kyle
10-16-2014, 04:28 PM
Speaking of Firestorm, I noticed the woman who works at STAR Labs noted her dead Boyfriend's name was Ronnie. Who "died" in a freak accident that gave tons of people Super Powers. I'm calling he's not dead and his last name is Raymond.
Oh yeah, that's absolutely going to happen. They've already cast Professor Stein.

Someone at the CW really likes Firestorm. We've got Felicity in 'Arrow', and Killer Frost and Multiplex in 'The Flash', with some really strong hints that Firestorm himself will be showing up.

Horsenhero
10-16-2014, 04:47 PM
Firestorm will almost certainly make an appearance, since Robbie Amell has signed on for more episodes (he played Ronnie in his single scene in the pilot) and the show has cast television veteran Victor Garber to play Prof. Martin Stein.

Sorry to Jason Rusch fans, but it doesn't look like he's in the cards at the moment.

Yep. We even know who will be playing firestorm's component parts.

ghostman76
10-16-2014, 06:01 PM
I've always wondered why Firestorm never really caught on as a character. I've always liked him. He's got a very unique look, interesting secret identity, cool powers with limitations that lead to neat plot twists, and a handful of cool villains. Plus....I'm a fan of any super hero or villain who's head is on fire. That's just a great look.

I think if there are two 80's DC characters that deserved to become icons and didn't, it's Firestorm and Blue Devil. I love both those guys.

Yeoman
10-16-2014, 06:11 PM
I've always wondered why Firestorm never really caught on as a character. I've always liked him. He's got a very unique look, interesting secret identity, cool powers with limitations that lead to neat plot twists, and a handful of cool villains. Plus....I'm a fan of any super hero or villain who's head is on fire. That's just a great look.

I think if there are two 80's DC characters that deserved to become icons and didn't, it's Firestorm and Blue Devil. I love both those guys.

Blue Devil I understand way. His whole thing is just being kinda weird.

But Firestorm... honestly the only reason I can think of is that pretty much anyone created after 1970 has a lot of trouble breaking into the mainstream. Guardians of the Galaxy may have FINALLY broken this, and even then, most of them are from the 70's (Though, to be fair, by and large their interpretations are form the last ten years).

But, yeah, Firestorm has okay villains (Better than anyone Aquaman has), good powers, interesting set up, and an AMAZING look. Like, of heroes from his time period I'm having trouble thinking of anyone that looks better. Honestly, I think if DC had some cred for quality movies and made a Firestorm movie, it could be for him what Guardians has done for those characters.

And given what this series has accomplished so far, they have my attention and I'm willing to see what they do with him.

Horsenhero
10-16-2014, 07:01 PM
Personally I think it was the poofy sleeves.

savijmuhdrox
10-16-2014, 08:35 PM
Uh.. Blue Devil has already been on Arrow.. kinda.

Saw "Blue Devil" on the side of a bus during a season 2 episode during my recent netflix binge... like an advertisement for his stunt show or something.

Kyle
10-17-2014, 12:18 AM
Personally I think it was the poofy sleeves.

Yeah, I imagine that's a big part of it.

Bladewind
10-17-2014, 04:43 AM
Firestorm also suffered from broad powers. Not Silver Age Superman or Martian Manhunter broad, but still... he was created with nuclear powers and as a result could pretty much do anything involving rearranging matter...
I continue to hold my fascination from when he first appeared with that whole gestalt mind thing.

I'm also sure his Superfriends look didn't help...

Goldar
10-17-2014, 12:08 PM
I want to see Zoom the Reverse Flash on screen in a yellow variant costume! How cool would that be? If they made him from the future as in the comics, he could have advanced Carb Bars that really super-charge him beyond today's science and moves/uses for speed powers that Barry hasn't thought of using yet. It could make for a very interesting 2-parter. Then in Season 2 (I am being optimitic), Barry could have improved his powers, usage and be better prepared for a rematch against Zoom, and possibly even besting him by stealing his Carb Bars!

ghostman76
10-17-2014, 12:12 PM
Firestorm also suffered from broad powers. Not Silver Age Superman or Martian Manhunter broad, but still... he was created with nuclear powers and as a result could pretty much do anything involving rearranging matter...
I continue to hold my fascination from when he first appeared with that whole gestalt mind thing.

I'm also sure his Superfriends look didn't help...

But that's the thing....if his powers were just rearranging matter however he saw fit, then yeah, he's up there with Ole Sweater Cuffs Superman who could do anything level of power. But Firestorm had limitations, at least initially. I don't know how they do him now, but originally he couldn't affect organic matter, which is a huge deal. Also, in order for him to rearrange the molecular composition of anything, he had to know the composition of what he was changing it to and if I'm not mistaken, he had to have enough of the component elemental material to work with that he was changing it into as well. So he couldn't just turn water into steel, but he could turn a tidal wave into a breeze just by extracting the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water.

That was the whole reason that they did the gestalt mind thing. It's what made Prof. Stein an integral part of the character. He wasn't just the old man in Ronnie's head telling him he should be home studying instead of going to the sock hop and listening to his Rocking and Roll music or whatever....he was LITERALLY the brains of the organization! lol.

ghostman76
10-17-2014, 12:15 PM
I want to see Zoom the Reverse Flash on screen in a yellow variant costume! How cool would that be? If they made him from the future as in the comics, he could have advanced Carb Bars that really super-charge him beyond today's science and moves/uses for speed powers that Barry hasn't thought of using yet. It could make for a very interesting 2-parter. Then in Season 2 (I am being optimitic), Barry could have improved his powers, usage and be better prepared for a rematch against Zoom, and possibly even besting him by stealing his Carb Bars!


http://screencrush.com/the-flash-reverse-professor-zoom-cw-costume-set-photos/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_286746

Bladewind already took care of ya Goldar on page 3. :)

Also....looking at these Zoom pictures in retrospect....is that a ring on his finger that could be future tech enough to have a storage compartment for his costume in it? If so, then holy shi......

Bladewind
10-17-2014, 12:45 PM
But that's the thing....if his powers were just rearranging matter however he saw fit, then yeah, he's up there with Ole Sweater Cuffs Superman who could do anything level of power. But Firestorm had limitations, at least initially. I don't know how they do him now, but originally he couldn't affect organic matter, which is a huge deal. Also, in order for him to rearrange the molecular composition of anything, he had to know the composition of what he was changing it to and if I'm not mistaken, he had to have enough of the component elemental material to work with that he was changing it into as well. So he couldn't just turn water into steel, but he could turn a tidal wave into a breeze just by extracting the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water.

That was the whole reason that they did the gestalt mind thing. It's what made Prof. Stein an integral part of the character. He wasn't just the old man in Ronnie's head telling him he should be home studying instead of going to the sock hop and listening to his Rocking and Roll music or whatever....he was LITERALLY the brains of the organization! lol.

That`s very true.

One of my favourite Firestorm issues was him in a fight versus Typhoon. The guy turned himself into a freaking hurricane and Firestorm fought it by first coating himself in metal with these ball things on his wrists and ankles that Stein thought was hokey but let him redirect lightning. Then he turned things in the air to sodium crystals the size of boxcars... it was actually pretty well executed...

Horsenhero
10-17-2014, 01:25 PM
The limits on Firestorm's powers must've been added later. Initially, he could rearrange anything into anything (he turned a speedboat into a hot air balloon in one issue) without any real knowledge of how it worked. Remember Stein is a physicist, not an engineer. He's transmuted air into shackles for captured enemies. He can permeate solid matter (he used to fly through walls) and of course he's got low level super strength, energy blasts, flight, and in some stories life support (he's been shown flying around in space unprotected).

They may have placed more limits on his powers later on, but in the original 70's series, his biggest drawbacks were, Ronnie Raymond's impetuousness, a costume that didn't quite catch on and a rogues gallery that was fairly unmemorable outside of Multiplex, Hyena, Typhoon and Killer Frost.

As for Zoom, I sincerely hope they hold off for awhile on bringing him into the story again in costume. The Flash has a really well developed rogues gallery (probably the best outside Batman) and it would be nice to see them get a bit of play before things go completely off the rails with the Zoom thing.

Goldar
10-17-2014, 02:39 PM
Thanks Ghostman! I hadn't read page 3/seen the Zoom images. And thank you Bladewind as well for posting that.

Yeah, I don't want all the craziness associated with most Zoom stories like Zoom trying to kill Iris and all the convoluted time stuff. But I just want to see him as a super-speed nemesis with the inverse color costume. I think that would be cool. Also would show Barry that while he is unique, there are others out there with powerful abilities and that other super-speedsters rivalling him do exist.

Bladewind
10-17-2014, 04:24 PM
Pleasure.

Trying to zoom in on the face... is it Detective Thrawn in the suit though ?

The TV series referenced in previous posts had a sort of Reverse Flash - name was Pollux IIRC - and his costume was a blue version...

Goldar
10-17-2014, 04:41 PM
Yes, I also thought it was Det. Thwane.

Never saw the previous TV series. I wonder why they went with blue suit? Did you ever watch any episodes of that series? Was it any good? I never hear anyone reference it or mention it at all.

Bladewind
10-17-2014, 05:47 PM
It's on YouTube... (Flash 90s series) It was.... a 90s superhero show. I was about 18 at the time, looked forward to watching it and thought some of the baddies were okay.

As for Pollux he was a clone of Barry and not actually Zoom.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjBUubnyeDo

Kyle
10-17-2014, 08:00 PM
I love that picture of Zoom with his leg kicked out, making his "O" face. That looks like a dude who's about to get fined for excessive celebration.

saint_matthew
10-17-2014, 08:43 PM
Oh the old blue Pollux costume, I always liked it better than the flash costume except for the logo. For some reason that costume looks better in blue than in red.

ghostman76
10-17-2014, 09:18 PM
Pleasure.

Trying to zoom in on the face... is it Detective Thrawn in the suit though ?

The TV series referenced in previous posts had a sort of Reverse Flash - name was Pollux IIRC - and his costume was a blue version...


I think it's a stuntman, so I doubt it's any of the actors on the show, but I may be wrong about that.

ghostman76
10-17-2014, 09:19 PM
Oh the old blue Pollux costume, I always liked it better than the flash costume except for the logo. For some reason that costume looks better in blue than in red.

I think the darker blue looks better on TV than the red because the red version shows the airbrushed black shading much more.

Stormson
10-20-2014, 07:22 AM
I love that picture of Zoom with his leg kicked out, making his "O" face. That looks like a dude who's about to get fined for excessive celebration.

I keep thinking he's going for the Hulk Hogan Leg Drop.

Bladewind
10-20-2014, 07:30 AM
I was under the impression that they were filming multiple things at the same time, and would later blend for a super speed effect.

He looks like he`s been hit in the stomache... Or he`s playing football. :cool:

Kyle
10-20-2014, 12:18 PM
I keep thinking he's going for the Hulk Hogan Leg Drop.

Not a move you see a lot of speedsters doing in comics, but I'm sure it would delight the my buddy who's last M&M character was a speedster strongly inspired by Macho Man Randy Savage.

savijmuhdrox
10-20-2014, 01:28 PM
I'm gonna say he just punted something, like a super duper important piece of equipment, as part of him pummeling Barry..

there's my two cents on that.

Stormson
10-22-2014, 06:45 AM
Last night's episode was good. This show has a lot of promise.

Bladewind
10-22-2014, 07:45 AM
I like just how human Barry is... getting feed on the layout of the prison and responding that he`s been thinking about breaking in since he was 12...

That and Cisco and Frost had some good moments - flashbacks to the night of the explosion were well done.

Lots of promise for certain !

savijmuhdrox
10-22-2014, 08:18 AM
FINALLY.. A Doom Patrol Easter Egg!!!!

Yes YESSSSS..

Now, the question is.. Were Iris and Barry watching "The Rita Farr Story" or the Blue Devil thingy??? dun dun dunnnnn..


I really like the pace this story is moving along at..

saint_matthew
10-22-2014, 08:25 AM
Now, the question is.. Were Iris and Barry watching "The Rita Farr Story" or the Blue Devil thingy??? dun dun dunnnnn..

Neither. They were watching Jack Riders show "You are Wrong" :)

savijmuhdrox
10-22-2014, 09:05 AM
Why?

Does that one have zombies? or just creepy stuff?

Mr Mole
10-22-2014, 11:05 AM
The storyline is somewhat better than we got at the beginning of season one of Arrow... And Barry's not a neck-snapping, borderline sociopath like Ollie started out, so that's a plus...

I like all the Easter eggs a lot.

The writers seem to be pretty ambitious, having already introduced quite a few potential supers, good and bad, and running straight toward a likely time travel conspiracy...

Firestorm's essentially guaranteed to show up relatively soon, which is kinda huge. I imagine Ronnie's gonna pop back to life in some sort of dangerously unstable form that will have to be kept contained and isolated, which will drive Caitlin into obsessive behavior as she tries desperately to cure him. Something will go wrong in one of her attempts and she'll end up Killer Frost. Ronnie will find merging with another human being helps stabilize his powers. Of course he'll feel partly responsible for Caitlin's new, homicidal lifestyle and will be compelled to stop her... or something along those general lines...

With the likelihood of Firestorm showing up on Flash and Atom showing up on Arrow, the Arrowverse seems to be rapidly changing tone. Ollie wouldn't even wear a mask before. Now we have honest-to-goodness superpowers with tons more on the way.

I'm not blown away by either show yet, but I like the general directions things are going.

Bladewind
10-22-2014, 12:39 PM
The writers seem to be pretty ambitious, having already introduced quite a few potential supers, good and bad, and running straight toward a likely time travel conspiracy...


And yet somehow it doesn`t seem forced... using the explosion at Star Labs as a common origin/ linking for many metas is a great idea...

Mr Mole
10-22-2014, 01:25 PM
And yet somehow it doesn`t seem forced... using the explosion at Star Labs as a common origin/ linking for many metas is a great idea...
I agree. It's far from the worst "common origin" I've ever come across. It's no more of a stretch than exobytes or the wildcard virus, certainly, and fits the tone and setting better than either of those.

As usual, I've thus far found the secret conspiracy to be the most intriguing plot line. It's still very early in the game, but I'm feeling optimistic about that part.

Bladewind
10-22-2014, 04:35 PM
I am thoroughly intrigued by Wells. That secret room of his... and that obviously future-tech... notice in the flashback he was watching Barry get struck by lightning ?

thaumonuclear
10-22-2014, 06:26 PM
I liked the comment that turning on the accelerator was like something he had waited centuries for. I predict that it actually was, and he's hundreds of years old.

Psistrike
10-22-2014, 07:07 PM
I liked the comment that turning on the accelerator was like something he had waited centuries for. I predict that it actually was, and he's hundreds of years old.
He seems to be a mix of the two Reverse Flash's origins and thus from the future, probably from 200 or more years in the future. The tech he has access to, the newspaper at the end of the premiere episode showing a future event where Flash disappears in 2024, and his knowledge of events suggest he is from the future. That was the origin of the original Reverse Flash, plus the stuck in a wheelchair and trying to help the Flash develop his powers and be his friend are details of the 2nd Reverse Flash.

luketheduke86
10-23-2014, 12:10 AM
I've been really enjoying the show. It's done a good job with the superhero feel and making Barry seem like a genuinely good (yet real) person. I'm particularly glad that they finally introduced a means of holding the villains, so they don't have to kill them off each episode.


I've always wondered why Firestorm never really caught on as a character. I've always liked him. He's got a very unique look, interesting secret identity, cool powers with limitations that lead to neat plot twists, and a handful of cool villains. Plus....I'm a fan of any super hero or villain who's head is on fire. That's just a great look.
I've wondered that too. Even my roommate, who isn't a big comic fan, thought that Firestorm's (who he saw in the Robot Chicken's DC Special) concept and powers were really cool and wondered why he hadn't ever heard of Firestorm before then.


And yet somehow it doesn`t seem forced... using the explosion at Star Labs as a common origin/ linking for many metas is a great idea...
I agree. I definitely like it more than Smallville's "kryptonite gives everybody superpowers" schtick.

saint_matthew
10-23-2014, 07:20 AM
Hmmmmmm, I think I want about 60% more super speed usage & about 40% less science babble workarounds instead of supers speed usage. I think I would also like to see more personality in the generalised cast in general & our lab assistance in specific: They are a little one note as they exist right now.

A couple of small tweaks could make this show legitimately amazing, rather than just pretty good.

luketheduke86
10-23-2014, 09:33 AM
Hmmmmmm, I think I want about 60% more super speed usage & about 40% less science babble workarounds instead of supers speed usage. I think I would also like to see more personality in the generalised cast in general & our lab assistance in specific: They are a little one note as they exist right now.

A couple of small tweaks could make this show legitimately amazing, rather than just pretty good.

I'm hoping they're building up to that, I'd definitely like to see some super speed stunts, particularly by Barry over his science crew. Hell, last episode against the Mist could have been a perfect time for him to pull out the whole spin in place to blow back Mist or even create a vortex with his arms trick.

savijmuhdrox
10-23-2014, 10:40 AM
He seems to be a mix of the two Reverse Flash's origins and thus from the future, probably from 200 or more years in the future. The tech he has access to, the newspaper at the end of the premiere episode showing a future event where Flash disappears in 2024, and his knowledge of events suggest he is from the future. That was the origin of the original Reverse Flash, plus the stuck in a wheelchair and trying to help the Flash develop his powers and be his friend are details of the 2nd Reverse Flash.

That's my take on it as well. I think the original origin of the Reverse Flash was some kind of deranged super fan who essentially thought he needed to become his hero... so Wells could be some kind of uber super stalker.. hence the stabby stab to Simon Stagg..

Yeoman
10-23-2014, 11:59 AM
Hmmmmmm, I think I want about 60% more super speed usage & about 40% less science babble workarounds instead of supers speed usage. I think I would also like to see more personality in the generalised cast in general & our lab assistance in specific: They are a little one note as they exist right now.

A couple of small tweaks could make this show legitimately amazing, rather than just pretty good.

I think this episode went a long way to giving Cisco some decent characterization. He's the kind of person that won't hesitate to close a door to doom one to save dozens of others. But also the kind that is still affected by having to do that sort of action. And, yet, won't let that stop him from doing technical work that needs doing.

That's more than a lot of minor characters like him get in a show like this.

ghostman76
10-23-2014, 12:12 PM
I think this episode went a long way to giving Cisco some decent characterization. He's the kind of person that won't hesitate to close a door to doom one to save dozens of others. But also the kind that is still affected by having to do that sort of action. And, yet, won't let that stop him from doing technical work that needs doing.

That's more than a lot of minor characters like him get in a show like this.

I totally agree. This episode did a lot of characterization with Cisco and Snow. I also really appreciate what they are doing with Joe as well. I was very scared that he was going to be like the detective dad in Arrow, where he was written and played to be as unlikable as he was bumbling in that he was unable to prove any of his theories while at the same time being angry and untrusting to virtually every character he came into contact with.

Joe on the other hand has already come to grips with Barry's powers and his quest to prove his father's innocence, but also admitted his own culpability in putting Henry behind bars. He was also smart enough to realize that Iris and Eddie were dating.

As far as Flash making liberal use of power stunts....well, the series is only three episodes in. I'm as eager as the next fan to see vortex hands and the like, but I'll cut them some slack on that front for now. Although it was pretty cool that Barry motion blurred his face when confronted by his dad at Iron Heights so he couldn't make out his features. That was cool.

kenmadragon
10-23-2014, 02:15 PM
I think that was our first instance of "Super-speed stunts". But then again, Barry's still starting out as a hero. He's gotta get better at using the basics before he gets to start warping physics with his super-speed. Baby steps, man. Baby steps.

Bladewind
10-23-2014, 04:25 PM
Was there anything more to Barry's dad anecdote about him learning to walk/ run?

I took it at face value, but a friend seems to think it implies he saw something and was telling Barry such without outright saying it...

Mr Mole
10-23-2014, 08:30 PM
Was there anything more to Barry's dad anecdote about him learning to walk/ run?

They didn't really commit one way or the other, but I doubt there's much chance Barry's dad failed to put enough pieces together to figure out the guy in the red suit was Barry. Barry's foster dad's in trouble and some guy who exactly matches Barry's height and build saves him, and even though he's wearing a mask, he also feels it necessary to further obfuscate his features when he realizes Henry's looking at him. I'm also not ruling out the possibility that Henry knows a lot more about what's going on than he's let on so far. Parents with ties to conspiracies and dark secrets seem to be pretty much the norm in the Arrowverse.

I watched the previous, short-lived Flash tv show decades ago and when I first saw Shipp as Henry Allen, I found myself unexpectedly grinning ear to ear. I had no idea he was going to be on the show until that moment and it was a really welcome surprise.:D

NOTE: I also love seeing Jesse Martin and Tom Cavanagh on the show, but John Wesley Shipp's got Flash nostalgia going for him.

saint_matthew
10-23-2014, 09:48 PM
I'm hoping they're building up to that, I'd definitely like to see some super speed stunts, particularly by Barry over his science crew. Hell, last episode against the Mist could have been a perfect time for him to pull out the whole spin in place to blow back Mist or even create a vortex with his arms trick.

I was thinking less on the super speed stunts & more just generalised usage of super powers. Though it might be about how this is being shot rather than the use of powers it self. The use of powers doesn't feel real because we rarely ever see it & when we do its usually at a distance using establishing shots, or when we are in close it uses the fast slow fast method (fast thing is slowed right down to slow motion speed, before zipping off again). Maybe its just the lack of actor physicality you get with the focus on CGI over practical effects, or a combination there of that makes the use of super speed feel as insubstantial as a soap bubble.

Bring that camera in guys let us share the speed experience, focus on the actors face, his expression, his body in motion, before panning out to Barry skidding to a full body stop at a crime scene... Up the physicality of the character, after all what he's doing is physical. They need to take some pointers from the comic book on that score.


I think this episode went a long way to giving Cisco some decent characterization.

He did, but I was thinking more personality wise, rather than ad hoc explanation for his personality as it is now.... Its a tiny thing, but it makes a difference. Its that whole people talking like people thing, the characters currently appear to have no life outside of Barry, they converse about nothing else, because they care about nothing else, because they exist solely to serve a narrative purpose: Science babble plot exposition.

Its tiny little things like that which could push the show into being excellent, rather than just pretty good. Give the characters the illusion of depth, a trick I've picked up with my own NPC's: The PC's walk into the room & the NPC's aren't just standing there waiting for them to show up so they can drop their plot exposition, they are already in the middle of a discussion about [insert current personal or news worthy event].


That's more than a lot of minor characters like him get in a show like this.

But less than he would get in others: There is never a sufficient reason to cease trying to improve ones art. Such is the lot in life of the artist. Generally its a good show, but there are just little niggling things that require some attention that would push it to being the full experience, rather than just another geek property :)

Gilliam
10-26-2014, 12:08 PM
Just seen the third episode of the Flash and I have to admit I have been pleasantly surprised so far. It is refreshing having a hero been a hero and helping people.

I liked the teaser used to advertise it though "Caitlin discovers that Ronnie survived the explosion and now has nuclear powers (http://tvnz.co.nz/the-flash/s1-ep3-video-6113989)" Can't wait to see it :D

Psistrike
10-28-2014, 05:46 PM
The weapons shown on tonight episode, obviously Heatwave's gun for the first one the guy described. The other one he described just sitting there, looked like it had mirrors in so could be Mirror Master's. Wonder how many of the Flash villains we will get to see in the series. :D Pied Piper has been confirmed as another we will be seeing.

Bladewind
10-28-2014, 05:52 PM
Poor Cisco. He went all Batman, but isn't bad ass enough to stand his ground and say why...

Barry and the train... really well done.

Arthur Eld
10-28-2014, 06:24 PM
Great episode. This show is definitely formulaic, but it's a formula that works.

Cisco in the last scene was again definite formula, but it was a cool moment. And the mini reveal behind his prototype cold gun was funny and true to the character.

I've been a fan of Wentworth Miller since Prison Break (I like his writing too) and he was great as Captain Cold-a human with tech who seemed like the biggest threat Barry's faced so far.

savijmuhdrox
10-29-2014, 06:50 AM
I was a little dismayed at Snarts disregard for life. He says no killing then freezes people to death. Sure, he's the bad guy and all, but the Rogue's code of conduct was part of what made them stand out.

I would like to see more of that, and maybe it becomes more of a thing as the Rogues come together..

Bladewind
10-29-2014, 06:53 AM
To be fair, he didn`t say no killing. He said no shooting cops unless there was no other choice to avoid the added heat... there was no moral compass involved in his statement.

As for the Rogues in comics, I totally agree with you.

kingk
10-29-2014, 08:46 AM
I was a little dismayed at Snarts disregard for life. He says no killing then freezes people to death. Sure, he's the bad guy and all, but the Rogue's code of conduct was part of what made them stand out.

I would like to see more of that, and maybe it becomes more of a thing as the Rogues come together..

I'm probably projecting, but when he actually killed that guy, I think I saw a bit of a wince on his face. My friend I was watching it with said he interpreted it as Snart thinking the Flash would actually be fast enough to save him, and when he wasn't, Snart was upset with himself. He didn't show it because, you know "keep cool," but still. Probably not the case, but I like it as headcanon.

Yeoman
10-29-2014, 10:13 PM
I was a little dismayed at Snarts disregard for life. He says no killing then freezes people to death. Sure, he's the bad guy and all, but the Rogue's code of conduct was part of what made them stand out.

I would like to see more of that, and maybe it becomes more of a thing as the Rogues come together..

I'm okay with it. The Rogues' Code of Conduct tended to kinda go out the window when things got tough. And it was he's first fight with a superhuman.

Overall, impressive episode. Best so far of a show that's been decent already. This was a really great version of Cold, made more impressive that he actually gets away clean, with the back up crew having to bluff him to make him back off.

Kyle
10-29-2014, 11:17 PM
I really enjoyed this episode.

Snart was pretty great, and I liked how calculating he was. The scene in the theatre was particularly good; as I was watching it, I was trying to figure out how it would work in an M&M game.

It's a bit disappointing that Captain Cold and Heatwave didn't make their own equipment; the shared origin of the accelerator explosion for the various metahumans makes sense, but having all the technologically empowered villains gear come from Star Labs as well is a bit much. A minor quibble in an otherwise fun episode.

Ares
10-29-2014, 11:39 PM
In a way it makes sense that, at least for these two, that their cutting edge equipment would come from STAR Labs. These were guys who were on the cutting edge of completely revolutionizing physics, and given their knowledge of how metahumans have altered conventional physics, them being the ones who design cutting edge gear makes sense. Classically, Cold didn't design his gun either, it was something he'd lucked into, while Heat Wave did design his own tech. Still, I can see how letting a pair of criminals acquire their tech this way would make more sense than them somehow being able to just whip up that kind of tech on the fly.

As for Cold himself, his problems with killing had less to do with morality and more to do with the fact that crooks that don't kill get lighter sentences. He was completely okay with killing his subordinates, and he only endangered people because that was the only way to slow the Flash down enough. Its perfectly in keeping with his comic character.

I'm actually really digging this show so far, and can't wait to see more. I'm also hoping that over time we'll get more classic coloring with the costume, as that's my only real gripe.

Kyle
10-30-2014, 12:20 AM
In a way it makes sense that, at least for these two, that their cutting edge equipment would come from STAR Labs. These were guys who were on the cutting edge of completely revolutionizing physics, and given their knowledge of how metahumans have altered conventional physics, them being the ones who design cutting edge gear makes sense. Classically, Cold didn't design his gun either, it was something he'd lucked into, while Heat Wave did design his own tech.

Ah, for some reason I thought Cold designed his gun himself. I'm gonna blame Robot Chicken (http://www.adultswim.com/videos/robot-chicken/cold-villains/).

Mr Mole
10-30-2014, 08:21 AM
For the umpteenth time, ditto what Ares said.

Also, I'm relieved that they've introduced a new origin for supers other than the particle accelerator explosion while still keeping the story internally consistent. "Because particle accelerator explosion" could get old really quickly as an origin for all of the Flash's enemies.

Yeoman
10-30-2014, 10:16 AM
For the umpteenth time, ditto what Ares said.

Also, I'm relieved that they've introduced a new origin for supers other than the particle accelerator explosion while still keeping the story internally consistent. "Because particle accelerator explosion" could get old really quickly as an origin for all of the Flash's enemies.

I also like that for all the BS pseudo science in the first three episodes, this one pretty much just goes "Listen, do you want a guy with a freeze ray or not?"

Also, I completely marked out when he showed up with the blue parka with the fur trim.

ghostman76
10-30-2014, 12:16 PM
I also like that for all the BS pseudo science in the first three episodes, this one pretty much just goes "Listen, do you want a guy with a freeze ray or not?"

Also, I completely marked out when he showed up with the blue parka with the fur trim.


Me too man....me too. That close up shot of him growling threats at Barry and all you can see is the furry lining of the hood and his goggles....that was just priceless.

I agree with the earlier assessment that this was the best episode of a show that has already been pretty damned good. Absolutely loved the characterization of Captain Cold, and loved that he completely trounced Flash in their first meeting. It's going to make any return appearances have that much more impact.

Ares
10-30-2014, 01:55 PM
Ah, for some reason I thought Cold designed his gun himself. I'm gonna blame Robot Chicken (http://www.adultswim.com/videos/robot-chicken/cold-villains/).

Well, I did a double check, and it turns out we're both kind of right. Cold originally got the idea for his gun on reading that the emissions of a cyclotron could potentially slow down the Flash enough for him to be defeated. So he designed a gun that he hoped would somehow tap into the cyclotron's energies, which it did, only instead of some kind of 'slow-mo' gun, it turned into a freeze ray. Since then he's figured out how it works so he can design other ice based gadgets.

So yeah, Snart DID design the gun, but he completely lucked into it being able to do what it does currently.

Yeoman
10-30-2014, 02:13 PM
Me too man....me too. That close up shot of him growling threats at Barry and all you can see is the furry lining of the hood and his goggles....that was just priceless.

I agree with the earlier assessment that this was the best episode of a show that has already been pretty damned good. Absolutely loved the characterization of Captain Cold, and loved that he completely trounced Flash in their first meeting. It's going to make any return appearances have that much more impact.


I also like that he's smart enough to realize that, yes, he beat the Flash both times. By being smart and prepared. But that he's gonna need help if he runs into the Flash when he's not ready.

ghostman76
10-30-2014, 04:17 PM
I also like that he's smart enough to realize that, yes, he beat the Flash both times. By being smart and prepared. But that he's gonna need help if he runs into the Flash when he's not ready.

Yep..and it's exactly that sort of pragmatism that makes Captain Cold my favorite Flash villain.

luketheduke86
10-30-2014, 09:07 PM
This was the best episode yet, IMO, and I think a lot of it was Wentworth Miller's fantastic performance as Captain Cold. I mean they could pitch a Flash's Rogues TV show right now and I'd be for it 100% as long as Miller was a part of it.

Gilliam
10-31-2014, 03:42 AM
I agree having a villain who actually thinks and plans made this episode the best so far. I can't wait for the rematch between Captain Cold and Barry.

Was it only me who was disappointed that Felicity and Barry decided to be friends.

Mr Mole
10-31-2014, 08:11 AM
I agree having a villain who actually thinks and plans made this episode the best so far. I can't wait for the rematch between Captain Cold and Barry.Was it only me who was disappointed that Felicity and Barry decided to be friends.

I actually thought it was the right decision. They made it by being considerate, mature and rational... Which are traits both characters have in abundance. I found it very refreshing and completely fitting for those two. That kind of thinking and behavior are why they're my two, favorite characters on either show.

Compare and contrast that with Ollie's encounter with Isabel Rochev, which left me feeling mildly nauseated.

Bladewind
10-31-2014, 08:26 AM
It occurs to me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abra_Kadabra_(comics)) that Dr Wells may be a bit of a mix of the Reverse Flash and Abracadbra...

Yeoman
10-31-2014, 10:38 AM
It occurs to me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abra_Kadabra_(comics)) that Dr Wells may be a bit of a mix of the Reverse Flash and Abracadbra...

Yeah, I'd considered he might be Abra Kadabra, though his behavior probably best fits Hunter Zoloman.


I actually thought it was the right decision. They made it by being considerate, mature and rational... Which are traits both characters have in abundance. I found it very refreshing and completely fitting for those two. That kind of thinking and behavior are why they're my two, favorite characters on either show.

Compare and contrast that with Ollie's encounter with Isabel Rochev, which left me feeling mildly nauseated.

Well, Ollie was always the slut of the DCU.

Bladewind
10-31-2014, 12:12 PM
Considering that other characters (Ronnie for instance) have been sort of blended (with Stein...) it`s not a huge stretch...

Goldar
11-01-2014, 07:21 AM
It occurs to me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abra_Kadabra_(comics)) that Dr Wells may be a bit of a mix of the Reverse Flash and Abracadbra...


Yeah, I'd considered he might be Abra Kadabra, though his behavior probably best fits Hunter Zoloman.

I was thinking the same thing as both of you after watching this episode. We might be on to something...

Ares
11-07-2014, 10:46 AM
Something I can't believe I missed the first time watching the Captain Cold episode, but when Felicity mentions Barry dying by "running too fast and ending up a pile of dust in a red costume", that was a reference to how Barry died in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Can't believe I didn't catch that the first time around.

Horsenhero
11-07-2014, 11:05 AM
Well, Ollie was always the slut of the DCU.

There's no such thing as a slut. Ollie's just a very affectionate person.:cool:

Bladewind
11-07-2014, 11:35 AM
Something I can't believe I missed the first time watching the Captain Cold episode, but when Felicity mentions Barry dying by "running too fast and ending up a pile of dust in a red costume", that was a reference to how Barry died in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Can't believe I didn't catch that the first time around.

This is me turning in my nerd card... I totally missed that too. Coupled with the red sky on Wells' newspaper...

Horsenhero
11-07-2014, 11:43 AM
Yeah...sometimes there are just too many easter eggs for me to catch them all.

I did notice from a couple episodes ago that the same actor who plays The Mist on Flash plays Victor Zsasz on Gotham.

Ares
11-07-2014, 12:59 PM
I will say I like how the Flash series openly embraces that its a superhero show, as opposed to being ashamed of it the way Smallville and Season1 Arrow seemed to be.

Bladewind
11-08-2014, 05:08 AM
I will say I like how the Flash series openly embraces that its a superhero show, as opposed to being ashamed of it the way Smallville and Season1 Arrow seemed to be.

And I think that's the main reason why it is succeeding.

badpenny
11-08-2014, 06:09 AM
I can't wait for Grodd. Not that I'm so knowledgeable about Flash's rogue's gallery, but I love me some talking gorillas (total fan girl for the recent Planet of the Apes movies). My guess is that since that will most likely have to be CGI and will use up their SFX budget, it'll be saved for the season finale.

Gilliam
11-08-2014, 10:02 AM
And I think that's the main reason why it is succeeding.


I agree as well and I don't even have to think twice about letting my kids watch it.

Silly question but was there no episode in the States last week?

Psistrike
11-08-2014, 12:41 PM
I agree as well and I don't even have to think twice about letting my kids watch it.

Silly question but was there no episode in the States last week?
It was a repeat, the episode with The Mist.

Gilliam
11-09-2014, 12:37 AM
That's a relief I was worried that the TV station here had pulled the show.

Gilliam
11-14-2014, 02:11 AM
Hmm this episode was a bit up and down for me. I did like how they brought in a Grodd teaser at the end and the earlier reference to physic experiments but I am getting tired of every new meta -human being killed off one way or the other. And Wells really is fixated on Barry.

Bladewind
11-14-2014, 04:34 AM
Wells fixation is still far more interesting than Coulson's though (IMO at least).

And while I do agree that it stinks just how many die, the Mist didn't die and Multiplex could easily be written to have survived with the an application of the game mechanic "Sacrifice" on his duplication.
(Not to bring game mechanics into the show, it was just easier to explain.)

Kyle
11-14-2014, 05:23 AM
Killing of Plastique did seem a bit unnecessary, though I'm sure they could bring her back if they wanted. Something about her subatomic structure reconstituting itself after the explosion. However, considering how stilted and wooden, Plastique's actress was, I can't say I'd be too choked up if she doesn't appear again.

I did think it was odd how easily Wells was able to convince Plastique to murder Eiling. Sure, she was obviously not happy with the general to start with, but she didn't even seem to hesitate when Wells brought it up.

Also, how great was Clancy Brown as Eiling? I hope we see a lot of him.

Bladewind
11-14-2014, 07:20 AM
Killing of Plastique did seem a bit unnecessary, though I'm sure they could bring her back if they wanted. Something about her subatomic structure reconstituting itself after the explosion. However, considering how stilted and wooden, Plastique's actress was, I can't say I'd be too choked up if she doesn't appear again.

.

That`s Shrapnel, not Plastique. :cool::p;)

Kyle
11-14-2014, 07:27 AM
I'd be surprised if the CWDC Shrapnel is reconstituting himself any time soon. That dude died pretty hard, and didn't seem to have any powers beyond acting like a creep.

saint_matthew
11-18-2014, 04:27 PM
Hmmmmmmm, my educated guess is todays episode will finally name the Flash, the Flash.

Horsenhero
11-18-2014, 07:23 PM
Hmmmmmmm, my educated guess is todays episode will finally name the Flash, the Flash.

Give the man a cigar.

Kyle
11-19-2014, 12:44 AM
So, at this point, the implication that Wells is Zoom is so far over the top, it has to be misdirection, right? He might as well just show up with a sinister moustache to twirl while he ties Iris to a set of train tracks.

Horsenhero
11-19-2014, 12:56 AM
And apparently he only kills or threatens to kill women. Zoom is a whole lot more Freudian than I would've thought.

What I don't understand is why Zoom made this appearance...besides to validate to Detective West that "yes" he is indeed on to something. I mean there was no forensic evidence confirming his existence from the original crime scene, or at least that's what we've been led to believe, so why bother confirming the detective isn't simply chasing a ghost? It makes no sense.

saint_matthew
11-19-2014, 12:57 AM
So, at this point, the implication that Wells is Zoom is so far over the top, it has to be misdirection, right? He might as well just show up with a sinister moustache to twirl while he ties Iris to a set of train tracks.

Or its exactly what it seems. Or split the difference, and have him be & not be simultaneously: That its himself from the future come back to the past & working with his old self, to make a better future.... After all that was one of the Reverse Flashes motivational kinks: Building better heroes through inflicting emotional suffering. All so that he can stop the crisis in the future.

I actually have this mad theory that the prisoners beneath Star Labs will be used as some kind of cosmic power source in a later episode.

Gilliam
11-19-2014, 12:58 AM
So, at this point, the implication that Wells is Zoom is so far over the top, it has to be misdirection, right? He might as well just show up with a sinister moustache to twirl while he ties Iris to a set of train tracks.

But that will be the twist we never see coming ;)

It does feels a bit like is Red Liz's Dad in the Blacklist.

saint_matthew
11-19-2014, 01:05 AM
And apparently he only kills or threatens to kill women. Zoom is a whole lot more Freudian than I would've thought.

Ahem, Simon Stagg & General Eiling. One killed, the other threatened, assuming of course that he really is the Reverse Flash.

Bladewind
11-19-2014, 05:56 AM
So, at this point, the implication that Wells is Zoom is so far over the top, it has to be misdirection, right? He might as well just show up with a sinister moustache to twirl while he ties Iris to a set of train tracks.

Great nod to Eddie though. The scene with the punching bag... Eddie was helping Barry be better... And then the comment about working on his speed.

I also liked Iris` voice over and the repetition of certain things that Barry has said... "believe in the impossible" and "I think it`s gonna catch on."

witchfire
11-19-2014, 06:23 AM
revealing your secret identity to one of your enemies

i tought Barry was suposed to be smart

Bladewind
11-19-2014, 06:24 AM
revealing your secret identity to one of your enemies

i tought Barry was suposed to be smart


Yeah... that bugged me too. But, overall I thought the episode was great.

Kyle
11-19-2014, 08:29 AM
Great nod to Eddie though. The scene with the punching bag... Eddie was helping Barry be better... And then the comment about working on his speed.

Right? Eddie seems like such a decent, affable guy, that as someone who isn't the main character or in the main character's inner circle, I have to assume his free time is spent bludgeoning hobos to death.

It wouldn't surprise me if Eddie is Zoom and he and Wells are working together. As Horsenhero pointed out up thread, Wells should be too smart to tip his hand to Joe by threatening Iris, but maybe Eddie is dumb enough to do so after finding out that Joe is on the case again.

Goldar
11-19-2014, 09:01 AM
I liked last night's episode alot.

My guess is that Eddie is Zoom, although as mentioned, he seems like a really nice guy! He also looks like he is in good shape, which could just be an attribute of the actor, or because he is "super" in some way. And of course, Eddie made sure that he is around Iris and as close as one can possibly be to her..................................

................I guess only time will tell....

Horsenhero
11-19-2014, 10:08 AM
revealing your secret identity to one of your enemies

i tought Barry was suposed to be smart

This didn't bother me all that much, because no matter how smart you are, finally getting it over on the bully who tortured you? The urge to twist the knife on an emotional level is going to be strong. Revenge isn't nearly as sweet if they don't know it's you.

This was actually a completely understandable, human, reaction to Barry beating his bully. Not necessarily wise, but completely understandable.

Bladewind
11-19-2014, 10:12 AM
Right? Eddie seems like such a decent, affable guy, that as someone who isn't the main character or in the main character's inner circle, I have to assume his free time is spent bludgeoning hobos to death.

It wouldn't surprise me if Eddie is Zoom and he and Wells are working together. As Horsenhero pointed out up thread, Wells should be too smart to tip his hand to Joe by threatening Iris, but maybe Eddie is dumb enough to do so after finding out that Joe is on the case again.

Well, what I meant by nod to Eddie was the link (beyond the similiarity in name) to things Zoom does... work to make heroes better, trying to make the Flash faster...

Kyle
11-19-2014, 10:38 AM
Ah, I wasn't aware that's a motivation of Zoom. Despite the show being probably my favourite of all the comic properties being done on television right now, I generally could not care less about the Flash.

Bladewind
11-19-2014, 11:07 AM
That's the beauty of it though. People that don`t have opinions on the Flash can sit back and enjoy it. There`s no complicated back story, hunt through backissues to figure out what they`re talking about...

The whole thing exists on its own...

And by the way... The Burning Man? Hmmmm..... Firestorm ?

savijmuhdrox
11-19-2014, 03:39 PM
That's the beauty of it though. People that don`t have opinions on the Flash can sit back and enjoy it. There`s no complicated back story, hunt through backissues to figure out what they`re talking about...

The whole thing exists on its own...

And by the way... The Burning Man? Hmmmm..... Firestorm ?

I think the Burning Man is a reference to Heatwave myself.. but one never knows..

I fill my wife in on all the characters backstory.. but she really doesnt need it.. the show is chugging along just fine. I mean heck.. they showed Grodd.. and the world didnt end.. so they can do no wrong.

Horsenhero
11-19-2014, 05:10 PM
I'm still hoping, however oddly this may have to be explained, that Wells is Vandal Savage. I don't need anyone to tell me how unlikely that is...but I can hope.

JetstreamGW
11-19-2014, 07:28 PM
Well, what I meant by nod to Eddie was the link (beyond the similiarity in name) to things Zoom does... work to make heroes better, trying to make the Flash faster...


Ah, I wasn't aware that's a motivation of Zoom. Despite the show being probably my favourite of all the comic properties being done on television right now, I generally could not care less about the Flash.


That's what Hunter Zolomon/Zoom does. Eobard Thawne/Zoom is just a very bad man.

Ares
11-19-2014, 08:16 PM
I like the idea of Wells and Thawne being in this together. Wells apparently has a significant history already in place, making the idea of him being a time traveler from the future less likely. Eddie tho, apparently showed up while Barry was in a coma, and then starts dating the girl Barry loves while he's in said coma.

What if Eddie traveled back in time to kill Barry's mom for whatever reason, and brought some future tech back with him to help push Wells' theories forward. That would explain the appearance of some of the more advanced tech and the newspaper from the future. What if Zoom has secured Wells' help by offering to save his wife before her death via time travel, and that's why he's so obsessed with keeping Barry alive: because Zoom is dangling the carrot of his wife in front of him.

Remember, it was revealed in the comics that the reason Zoom hated Barry was because Zoom had originally been a huge Barry Allen fanboy, had used future science to replicate Barry's powers, even altered his features to look like Barry, and had traveled back in time to meet Barry, only to wind up in the wrong time period. Deciding to replace Barry, he instead found out that Barry was going to kill him one day, which broke his mind and put him on the path to destroy Barry.

Meanwhile the second Zoom was obsessed with helping his Flash improve so that he would be the best hero he could.

What if this Zoom is a hybrid of the two? He's decided to make Barry a better hero by traveling back in time, giving him a tragic origin to make him more focused, and then has Wells accelerate things so that Barry gets his powers earlier, and while Barry is in a coma, he steps in as Eddie to romance Iris and make sure that Barry is focused on his job instead of his love life. Only Eddie actually falls for her, and eventually it'll all drive him to a true confrontation with the guy he admires.

It would make sense, since Eddie is so far the only member of the main cast who we haven't seen outside of his interaction with another cast member. Barry, Iris, her dad, Wells, even the two lab assistants, we've seen them by themselves, seen their private actions, thoughts, etc. Not Eddie. He's the only one so far whom we don't know his private thoughts, motivations, etc.

The more I think about it, the more this seems like a distinct possibility.

Ares
11-19-2014, 08:17 PM
This didn't bother me all that much, because no matter how smart you are, finally getting it over on the bully who tortured you? The urge to twist the knife on an emotional level is going to be strong. Revenge isn't nearly as sweet if they don't know it's you.

This was actually a completely understandable, human, reaction to Barry beating his bully. Not necessarily wise, but completely understandable.

Exactly. It definitely wasn't smart, but it was definitely understandable. Barry's reaction once the door closed said it all.

Ares
11-19-2014, 08:20 PM
Something else that occurs to me: Wells commented that his wife would have had the particle accelerator up in 4 months instead of the 14 years it took him. What if Zoom intentionally took her out of the picture so that the accelerator wasn't around to potentially trigger earlier metahumans, resulting in a lower metahuman population?

Though I'm also hoping that eventually they reveal that there are other ways to get superpowers outside of the accelerator. I mean, Arrow has what is essentially a Super Soldier Serum, so there might be others.

saint_matthew
11-19-2014, 09:12 PM
Did anyone else notice the reference to Firestorm. The guy whose head is on fire.

Horsenhero
11-19-2014, 10:11 PM
Did anyone else notice the reference to Firestorm. The guy whose head is on fire.

Bladewind mentioned it earlier. Someone else thought it might be Heatwave, but since Heatwave doesn't actually ignite (and in fact wears a fireproof suit to protect him from his own weaponry), I figure the pair of you are correct.

Bladewind
11-20-2014, 05:47 AM
That's what Hunter Zolomon/Zoom does. Eobard Thawne/Zoom is just a very bad man.

Being a TV show that doesnt`t have years of continuity to fall back on, that`s presenting itself as the beginning of metahumans, that`s establishing it's own continuity... but is still giving comic fans a thread to follow, I think that Ares` hybrid thought it plausible.

saint_matthew
11-20-2014, 06:38 AM
Being a TV show that doesnt`t have years of continuity to fall back on, that`s presenting itself as the beginning of metahumans, that`s establishing it's own continuity

That's actually one of the problems with super hero media outside of comics.... Everyone thinks that their property has to be the first property.... Even Flash which is notably not the first is still the first, in that his existence had to jump start the super hero aspects of the universe. Its just a little bit tedious having to tie literally every aspect of every powered individual back to whatever the main character is doing.... In Smallville for like 8 seasons it was meteorite freaks, in Arrow its people who want to kill Ollie because of the flashbacks, for Flash its because of the Star Labs explosion causing meta humans.

Just once I want to see a new property in a different medium that's all like "oh yeah this character is totally the protagonist, but he's not the progenitor. There have been super powered costumed heroes around since the 1930's, this character is just about the adventures of this specific one. Also his villains are just villains, almost none of them have a personal connection to the characters secret identity."

badpenny
11-20-2014, 06:46 AM
Just once I want to see a new property in a different medium that's all like "oh yeah this character is totally the protagonist, but he's not the progenitor. There have been super powered costumed heroes around since the 1930's, this character is just about the adventures of this specific one. Also his villains are just villains, almost none of them have a personal connection to the characters secret identity."

This. Exactly this.

Bladewind
11-20-2014, 07:07 AM
While I agree with what you`re saying, it wasn't precisely the point I was making.

The 90s Flash show kinda did what you`re talking about - they never spoke (as far as I remember) - about other heroes outside of his circle, the implications of a superhero on the world at large. In fact, it was largely glossed over. It simply existed on its own.

I do think though, that by establishing Barry as the first or one of the first, they are telling the n00bs that things like the Smallville series doesn`t exist in this universe (even though crossing over with Arrow kinda did that for them - again, it`s for the n00bs.) Either way I get your point and it`s definitely valid, but it`s not something that annoys me.

On the flip side, I`d like a comic book that has the history of the comicverse as a generational timeline vs the so-called sliding time line that annoys the living heck out of me.

Ares
11-20-2014, 07:56 AM
That's actually one of the problems with super hero media outside of comics.... Everyone thinks that their property has to be the first property....

Just once I want to see a new property in a different medium that's all like "oh yeah this character is totally the protagonist, but he's not the progenitor. There have been super powered costumed heroes around since the 1930's, this character is just about the adventures of this specific one. Also his villains are just villains, almost none of them have a personal connection to the characters secret identity."

I agree. There's often a lack of history and legacy to projects like Flash and Arrow because these guys are clearly the first well known superheroes.

The 2003 TMNT cartoon was actually really good about establishing that the Turtles existed in a larger universe of adventure. There are superheroes in the setting that have existed since WWII, there have been strange things happening since before their Atlantis analogy sank beneath the waves in pre-historic times. Its clear we're just seeing the Turtles story, while there are other heroes saving the world.

It'd be nice to see that kind of thing more often.

Ares
11-20-2014, 07:59 AM
The 90s Flash show kinda did what you`re talking about - they never spoke (as far as I remember) - about other heroes outside of his circle, the implications of a superhero on the world at large. In fact, it was largely glossed over. It simply existed on its own.

Interestingly enough, that show did establish that Central City had at least one superhero prior, a Sandman analogy named Nightshade.

Mr Mole
11-20-2014, 08:36 AM
From what I've observed so far, Wells seems to have too much inside information about who's who even before they're anyone worth knowing about to not either be from the future or from an alternate timeline... or (my best guess) the future of an alternate timeline.

I'm thinking they're pulling some sort of Flashpoint Paradox. History got muddled and Wells has knowledge of the original continuity, which he's using to engineer a specific outcome... Likely trying to undo the event that muddled things to begin with so he can get his wife back... or something along those lines. That's the primary reason for him guiding and protecting Barry. He needs the Flash to reach his full potential so Barry can save his mom in the past and reset reality.

In the unlikely even that all these assumptions are correct, it wouldn't make sense for Wells to be the Reverse Flash who killed Barry's mom. That would pretty much leave Eddie Thawne as the guilty party.

Ares
11-20-2014, 08:42 AM
From what I've observed so far, Wells seems to have too much inside information about who's who even before they're anyone worth knowing about to not either be from the future or from an alternate timeline... or (my best guess) the future of an alternate timeline.

I'm thinking they're pulling some sort of Flashpoint Paradox. History got muddled and Wells has knowledge of the original continuity, which he's using to engineer a specific outcome... Likely trying to undo the event that muddled things to begin with so he can get his wife back... or something along those lines. That's the primary reason for him guiding and protecting Barry. He needs the Flash to reach his full potential so Barry can save his mom in the past and reset reality.

In the unlikely even that all these assumptions are correct, it wouldn't make sense for Wells to be the Reverse Flash who killed Barry's mom. That would pretty much leave Eddie Thawne as the guilty party.

That's an angle I hadn't considered: Wells and Zoom to be in position of one another rather than working together on some level. It could explain the wheelchair, as it makes him appear less of a threat, and thus Zoom won't just kill him the way he did Barry's mom.

Yeoman
11-20-2014, 09:04 AM
I agree. There's often a lack of history and legacy to projects like Flash and Arrow because these guys are clearly the first well known superheroes.

The 2003 TMNT cartoon was actually really good about establishing that the Turtles existed in a larger universe of adventure. There are superheroes in the setting that have existed since WWII, there have been strange things happening since before their Atlantis analogy sank beneath the waves in pre-historic times. Its clear we're just seeing the Turtles story, while there are other heroes saving the world.

It'd be nice to see that kind of thing more often.

I thought one of the best ways it did this was having Splinter having been part of an interdimensional fighting tournament. And Hamato Yoshi before him.

Course what I love most about that arc is that it definitively shows Spinter having taking on Yoshi's surname, making him Hamato Splinter, and, given the shows strong theme of family between Splinter and the turtles, could imply he passed the name to them, making them the only incarnation I can think of where they even possibly have a surname.

Bladewind
11-20-2014, 09:47 AM
Someone questioned the relevance of having the Reverse Flash affirm Joe`s belief in Barry's version of his mom's death, and seemingly taking all the evidence for no apparent reason...

Anyhoo... something about that scene bugged me. In rewatching it, I noticed that it looks a lot like the scene from the murder of the mother. In fact, it looks like the effect itself was copy/ pasted. Now, that in itself doesn`t really bug me much. What I`m getting at, was after the pilot, I sort of felt that the blur of movement was Flash and Reverse Flash/ Zoom fighting each other... this kind of puts that theory to rest as the blurs were the same.

Unless Barry and Zoom are bouncing through the timestream fighting each other... And Barry is losing so far.

Mr Mole
11-20-2014, 10:18 AM
That's an angle I hadn't considered: Wells and Zoom to be in position of one another rather than working together on some level. It could explain the wheelchair, as it makes him appear less of a threat, and thus Zoom won't just kill him the way he did Barry's mom.
The best conspiracy theories involve two (or more) secret cabals with opposing goals struggling against each other... and everyone else is just a piece on the chessboard, most never even aware that they're being used in a battle they don't even know exists.

I'm reasonably sure Wells isn't the Reverse Flash... Although Wells certainly knows of his existence... And I suspect they have different goals. There may be some form of cooperation between them where their goals overlap (like both of them keeping the truth hidden from Barry), but I doubt they have the same end result in mind. Both feel strongly enough about the objective to kill innocent people. If my (wild) theories regarding Wells are correct, he could easily rationalize that any harm he does will be undone when the timeline gets back on track.

Wells' closest analogue seems to be Hunter Zolomon, but I dunno... Maybe he's an alternate, future Barry even...

One other thought: If Wells had Flash-like powers, there are probably dozens of better (and untraceable) ways to've killed Simon Stagg than stabbing him... Then again, Barry's mom's death was caused by a single stab wound, wasn't it? Hmmm...

Ares
11-21-2014, 07:21 AM
Something else to consider about Eddie, if time travel is involved, is that he might be Zoom, but he might not be Zoom yet. While he could be a red herring, or a villain who is really good at acting surprised at metahumans and being a good person, he could also be from a time frame from before he goes all Reverse Flash. Assuming Wells isn't the RF, given how convenient it is that Joe gets a vist from the RF right after Wells notes he doesn't give up on a case.

Mr Mole
11-21-2014, 07:46 AM
Something else to consider about Eddie, if time travel is involved, is that he might be Zoom, but he might not be Zoom yet. While he could be a red herring, or a villain who is really good at acting surprised at metahumans and being a good person, he could also be from a time frame from before he goes all Reverse Flash. Assuming Wells isn't the RF, given how convenient it is that Joe gets a vist from the RF right after Wells notes he doesn't give up on a case.
I had the same thought regarding Eddie.

I hadn't considered this before, but I also suppose, if there are multiple timelines involved, Wells could actually be working against an alternate version of himself...

It just seems like RF confronting Joe works against Wells' apparent attempts at misdirection. Joe doesn't give up on a case. Now he's seen RF firsthand. It might take a bit for him to find his resolve, but I imagine he'll be back at it even more doggedly than before.

...or maybe Roy killed Barry's mom... :p

Bladewind
11-21-2014, 08:03 AM
You're reminding me of my gaming group back in the day - there was nothing that the GM/ DM could cook up that was worse than what the players imagined was going to happen...

I'm also of the opinion that Zoom/ RF showing up two point two milliseconds after Joe scratches off the Wells connection from his notes is so obviously a red herring that it has to meant to misdirect. And in the fact that its so obvious, it could be exactly what it seems.

Either way, Wells is not as nice as he wants everyone to think - the guy is pretending to be wheelchair-bound after all.

Horsenhero
11-21-2014, 08:37 AM
Either way, Wells is not as nice as he wants everyone to think - the guy is pretending to be wheelchair-bound after all.

Maybe he just wants the good parking spots.

Shock
11-21-2014, 08:44 AM
Maybe he just wants the good parking spots.

Per the song, that still makes him an asshole

Ares
11-21-2014, 08:53 AM
He also, you know, STABS PEOPLE and convinces other people to commit murder. As well as potentially intentionally causing the accelerator malfunction that killed a lot of people.

Horsenhero
11-21-2014, 09:20 AM
He also, you know, STABS PEOPLE and convinces other people to commit murder. As well as potentially intentionally causing the accelerator malfunction that killed a lot of people.

Well...if you're going to nitpick.;)

Gilliam
11-21-2014, 10:34 AM
He also, you know, STABS PEOPLE and convinces other people to commit murder. As well as potentially intentionally causing the accelerator malfunction that killed a lot of people.

It's just a simple misunderstanding officer, he just ran on to my knife when I was showing it to him ;)

But still the RF appearing and taking all the evidence just doesn't make sense to me, yes Joe was looking at the case again but if you wanted to discourage him, that was the wrong way to go about it

Bladewind
11-21-2014, 01:42 PM
Unless you didn't want to discourage him... or, you wanted him to think the lead he just crossed off was still a lead...

Horsenhero
11-21-2014, 02:01 PM
Yes! The Reverse-Flash uses Reverse-Psychology!

Oh come on! If I thought of it, you know the writers did.:cool:

Mr Mole
11-21-2014, 02:33 PM
Yes! The Reverse-Flash uses Reverse-Psychology!

Oh come on! If I thought of it, you know the writers did.:cool:
Touché, sir.

luketheduke86
11-21-2014, 03:34 PM
I think the Burning Man is a reference to Heatwave myself.. but one never knows..
I'm more inclined to think that the Burning Man is most likely Firestorm, maybe trying to regain his corporeal form à la Dr. Manhattan. Heatwave was pretty much introduced or at least very heavily hinted at as being more in line with his comic counterpart (ie. gadget based) in the Captain Cold episode.


Yes! The Reverse-Flash uses Reverse-Psychology!

Oh come on! If I thought of it, you know the writers did.:cool:

Oh god, that had me laughing way more than it should have :D.

Gilliam
11-21-2014, 04:34 PM
Yes! The Reverse-Flash uses Reverse-Psychology!

Oh come on! If I thought of it, you know the writers did.:cool:

Nicely done :D

savijmuhdrox
11-22-2014, 08:22 AM
When i saw Reverse Flash come take Joe's notes i just figured there was DEFINITELY something incriminating in there, which would be innocuous then, but not now.. Like Wells standing in the background of a crime scene photo..

And if i have to go all super geek here (because lets face it, who can resist super geek theorizing), i would venture to guess that Joe is not long for this world... Otherwise Reverse Flash would not have been so blatant about stealing his notes.. Since he's from the future and hero worships The Flash.. Joe must not be a central figure to the Flash in the future..

Just my thinking.. alternate time lines not really my college major, so i could be WAY OFF.. But i'll enjoy it nonetheless... (unless they bring in Jonah Hill as ANYONE... Then I'm out.)

Ares
11-22-2014, 09:48 AM
As an aside from the Zoom speculation, I did love Snart's reaction to being called Captain Cold. He just so completely amused that you know he's going to adopt it.

Bladewind
11-25-2014, 08:21 AM
oh yay. The hero loses his powers trope. This is the first episode that I`m not super excited about...

Gonna watch, but... not holding the breath.


oh, and I was rewatching an epidose of the 90s Flash and it strikes me just how similiar the theme of that one was close to the Batman Burton/ Animated... heh. Replete with lighting flashing against the moon to form the Flash Symbol...

Ares
11-25-2014, 08:24 PM
I'm going to have to re-watch this episode or check out the TV Tropes page in a bit to see all of the folks they name-dropped. We either have just had a list of confirmed kills for some fairly well known DC characters, or we just got a check list of future appearances.

savijmuhdrox
11-25-2014, 09:23 PM
Yeah.. Those were pretty significant..

Besides Blackout's friends, Wells name-dropped Ralph Dibny, Al Rothstein, Grant Emerson, Will Everett and Bea Dacosta... all DC superheroes..

But are they dead? Or yet to be revealed metas?

And if not.. Could i seriously get to look forward to seeing Damage at some point?

Yes, yes, yes, yes!

Kyle
11-25-2014, 09:37 PM
I had to look up almost all of them, but with the exception of Blackout's friends everyone Wells lists when talking about people killed by the explosion is an established DC character. Elongated Man, Atom Smasher, Damage, Amazing Man, Fire, and, Firestorm.

We know Firestorm will be showing up, but I wonder if any of the others have a chance at a future appearance, or if being being named dropped as victims of the accident is it for them.

savijmuhdrox
11-25-2014, 09:52 PM
I picked up on Damage instantly... Maybe even peed myself a little.

Its late so i may be confused.. But im pretty sure none of those characters made the jump to the nu-52 universe... I wonder if that means anything..

Mr Mole
11-25-2014, 10:05 PM
D'oh! I'm a moron for not having seen this sooner. "Harrison Wells." You wanna bet his middle initial is "G"? "H.G. Wells." The guy who wrote, among other things, "The Time Machine." (Although, in the case of the original, the "H" stood for "Herbert" and the "G" for "George")

Geez! I'm doubly a moron. I just thought of something else. "Tess Morgan," right? "Morgan" is frequently spelled "Morgen"... German for "tomorrow." I can't believe I didn't think of that weeks ago...

That just cannot be a coincidence.

So... It's (still) a pretty safe bet Wells is some sort of time traveler. The bit at the end about his interest in finding a method to steal Barry's powers was interesting.

As far as the names dropped, I recognized everyone except the first two... Which, if I heard correctly, were "Jake Davenport" and "Daria Kim." Firestorm we've known about for awhile now. All but Elongated Man have some sort of energy or elemental powers (I'm gonna count Amazing Man as close enough to "elemental"). Any or all would fit in fine with the likes of the Flash, Firestorm, the Atom and Green Arrow. No idea what (if anything) they're planning on doing with any of those characters in future episodes, but I'm grinning at even the thought of it.

Kyle
11-26-2014, 01:20 AM
No idea what (if anything) they're planning on doing with any of those characters in future episodes, but I'm grinning at even the thought of it.
The problem is that Wells heavily implied that all those characters were among the dead. If they were to go the Ghost Detective route with Ralph -- and hopefully Sue -- by having the blast turn him invisible and incorporeal, that could be a way to bring the character in. The original Amazing Man's grandsons took up his mantle, which would work here as well. If the rest ended up in the morgue, that seems pretty conclusive.

It's interesting that Wells said eleven people were killed by the accident, but listed nine names. I wonder if Weather Wizard's brother is on that list.

Also, speaking of dead people, it found it really creepy that they just put Blackout's body in their accelerator prison. That doesn't seem like it's going to prevent decay.

Gilliam
11-26-2014, 01:40 AM
Now I am feeling sad, Ralph Dibny dead.

saint_matthew
11-26-2014, 01:42 AM
Its late so i may be confused.. But im pretty sure none of those characters made the jump to the nu-52 universe... I wonder if that means anything..

Fire.... Fire is in the NU52. She was in Justice League International.


D'oh! I'm a moron for not having seen this sooner. "Harrison Wells." You wanna bet his middle initial is "G"? "H.G. Wells." The guy who wrote, among other things, "The Time Machine." (Although, in the case of the original, the "H" stood for "Herbert" and the "G" for "George")

Yeah I spotted that this week too & I was like; Wells, of course its Wells, what other name could a time traveller possibly have.

savijmuhdrox
11-26-2014, 04:30 AM
But isnt Harrison Wells already an established Flash character? So the Time Machine reference is an old school 'easter egg' in the comic, but here its just the characters name.

So we know 11 people died in the blast and now we've name-dropped seven in one episode.. and you've already got Weather Wizards brother on the list.. and technically Girder was thought to be on the list.. interesting.. i wonder if thats an established set number.. or will they play loosy goosy with it throughout the show.

And heres a theory out of left field.. all the name dropped heroes died in the blast because they were actually killed trying to stop Wells.. maybe from an alternate future?

Its fun to theorize but honestly.. i wanna see more Captain Cold and finally get Dominic Purcell back on screen dagnabbit..

Corrigon
11-26-2014, 04:35 AM
Considering they have generally been wrong about people who have died so far, they might not neccessarily be dead.

Bladewind
11-26-2014, 06:32 AM
D'oh! I'm a moron for not having seen this sooner. "Harrison Wells." You wanna bet his middle initial is "G"? "H.G. Wells." The guy who wrote, among other things, "The Time Machine." (Although, in the case of the original, the "H" stood for "Herbert" and the "G" for "George")

Geez! I'm doubly a moron. I just thought of something else. "Tess Morgan," right? "Morgan" is frequently spelled "Morgen"... German for "tomorrow." I can't believe I didn't think of that weeks ago...


Geez !

I`ve been trying to figure out why the name sounds familiar since the get go... nice catch.

I`m going to have to agree with you, as I am a firm believer that in fiction if they focus in on an object in Act 1, it`s going to be significant by Act 3.

We got a huge taste of Wells` involvement though... not the nicest guy, almost has a Lex Luthor vibe to him in that everyone thinks he's great but ultimately he`s out for himself.

Horsenhero
11-26-2014, 09:36 AM
Geez !

I`ve been trying to figure out why the name sounds familiar since the get go... nice catch.

I`m going to have to agree with you, as I am a firm believer that in fiction if they focus in on an object in Act 1, it`s going to be significant by Act 3.

We got a huge taste of Wells` involvement though... not the nicest guy, almost has a Lex Luthor vibe to him in that everyone thinks he's great but ultimately he`s out for himself.

So true. Whenever anyone starts yammering about "the greater good", what they usually mean is "what's good for me".

As for the H.G. Wells reference...I thought everybody got it immediately and didn't bother pointing out the obvious. Now I know how my mom feels when she mentions the author of the "Hardy Boys" or "Nancy Drew" novels and I look at her blankly.

Harrison Wells is, as far as I know, a new character for the show...which means it's easier to hide an established villain behind the name. Is he Hunter Zolomon? Vandal Savage? The Time Trapper? A Monitor (or THE Monitor depending on how you treat the character)? None of the above?

Time will tell.

savijmuhdrox
11-26-2014, 10:12 AM
Harrison Wells is, as far as I know, a new character for the show...which means it's easier to hide an established villain behind the name. Is he Hunter Zolomon? Vandal Savage? The Time Trapper? A Monitor (or THE Monitor depending on how you treat the character)? None of the above?

Time will tell.


Ahhh.. I was getting Hunter confused for Harrison.. just merrily assuming they were a direct connection.. so now he could be anything else.. sounds good to me..

maybe even some kind of super mastermind imprisoning all the villains in the ring so he one day free them for his own nefarious purposes.. muhahahhaa..

Mr Mole
11-26-2014, 10:39 AM
As for the H.G. Wells reference...I thought everybody got it immediately and didn't bother pointing out the obvious. Now I know how my mom feels when she mentions the author of the "Hardy Boys" or "Nancy Drew" novels and I look at her blankly.
Yeah. It was pretty obvious... But I think my mind was focused on finding a DC-specific connection, rather than thinking more globally. It's not something I should've missed, but I did.


...The Time Trapper?...
I was just starting to seriously consider that one.


Time will tell.
Oy vey, the puns...

Gilliam
11-27-2014, 01:10 AM
Yeah. It was pretty obvious... But I think my mind was focused on finding a DC-specific connection, rather than thinking more globally. It's not something I should've missed, but I did.


Add me to the list of those who didn't notice and this is after I am currently rewatching Warehouse 13 with Helena G Wells being the main villain.

Bladewind
11-27-2014, 04:40 AM
So what did people think of the Clock King?

Reminded me a little too much of Tick Tock and The Time Keeper from Spy Kids 4 (which my son had watched altogether too many times... But that's another story...)

Kyle
11-27-2014, 05:48 AM
I liked Clock King here more than his first appearance in 'Arrow'. He was a bit more fun, while still being the same essential character.

His glasses made out of watch parts bothered me though. I admire the commitment to the theme, but it seems like someone that concerned with precision be more concerned with having proper prescription lens.

saint_matthew
12-02-2014, 07:00 PM
Best... Episode... Ever!

Ares
12-02-2014, 07:41 PM
This was a lot of fun, and felt like those old Marvel Comic Team Up issues where there's a fairly understandable contrivance to get the characters fighting. I also loved that the actual support teams got in a typical 'who would win' debate. Hell, I applaud them simply for using the Rainbow Raider as a villain and even name-dropping him while giving him an in-universe name that isn't quite so goofy. Definitely can't wait to see part 2 tomorrow night, and I really hope someone calls Digger 'Captain Boomerang', preferably with Snart freeing him and inviting him into the Rogues, though I could see Waller trying to get him on the Suicide Squad as well.

Mr Mole
12-02-2014, 08:59 PM
That was very nearly as awesome as I could ever reasonably hope for from a one hour episode of live action television.:o

A few more like this and I could almost die happy.

Yeoman
12-02-2014, 11:19 PM
I liked Clock King here more than his first appearance in 'Arrow'. He was a bit more fun, while still being the same essential character.

His glasses made out of watch parts bothered me though. I admire the commitment to the theme, but it seems like someone that concerned with precision be more concerned with having proper prescription lens.

Eh, the truly amazing version of Clock King has glasses with little minute and hour hands on them. I can forgive this.


This was a lot of fun, and felt like those old Marvel Comic Team Up issues where there's a fairly understandable contrivance to get the characters fighting. I also loved that the actual support teams got in a typical 'who would win' debate. Hell, I applaud them simply for using the Rainbow Raider as a villain and even name-dropping him while giving him an in-universe name that isn't quite so goofy.

Would have been nice to see him use an emotion other than rage though, assuming this version can.

Also I can't decide if it's an awesome move of scrapping the barrel to use the Rainbow friggin' Raider.

Also, neat Hourman nod (abandoned chemical plant with "Tyler" on a sign).


Definitely can't wait to see part 2 tomorrow night, and I really hope someone calls Digger 'Captain Boomerang', preferably with Snart freeing him and inviting him into the Rogues, though I could see Waller trying to get him on the Suicide Squad as well.

He needs either has hat, his accent or that shirt covered in boomerangs with a sash to really be complete.

Mr Mole
12-02-2014, 11:42 PM
He needs either has hat, his accent or that shirt covered in boomerangs with a sash to really be complete.
All those plus sideburns would work for me.

Kyle
12-03-2014, 02:00 AM
They really did a good job of highlighting what an asshole Oliver is. I also liked the bit where the support crew were debating about who would win in a fight and Diggle was just straight up, "You know Oliver has murdered like, a ton of people, right?" Now he just needs to do that on 'Arrow' whenever Ollie is being a dick about someone else's killing.

For the most part, I thought it was a pretty good episode. A bunch of the dialogue was oddly stilted, but I get that they were trying to juggle a fairly large cast. I quite liked that during the opening monologue, Barry was just zipping around Central City helping people out. The fact that's he's generally a good guy, and seems to get a genuine thrill out of helping people is still one of my favourite things about the show.

Did Wells use his future newspaper to figure out that Ollie is the Arrow, or did he just hang-out in the hallway for ten seconds after he and Felicity spoke, and overhear her say Oliver's name to Barry? Or maybe he follows Iris on various social media thanks to her blog, and she tweeted that Oliver was in the coffee shop, and she'd totally bone him?


Would have been nice to see him use an emotion other than rage though, assuming this version can.
Agreed. They jumped pretty quickly to colour psychology with only the mention of flashes of red, especially in a town that has been somewhat overrun by a red blur for the past few months. And both the names they gave him dealt with multiple colours.


Also I can't decide if it's an awesome move of scrapping the barrel to use the Rainbow friggin' Raider.
Nah, Rainbow Raider is a cool grab. Goofy old school villains are fun. Girder is scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

Bladewind
12-03-2014, 07:56 AM
Is it an actual two parter with Arrow tonight or are they stand alone episodes ?

I missed Flash last night and don`t know if I`ll get to stream before Arrow...

Thoughts ?

Ares
12-03-2014, 08:21 AM
It's technically a two-parter. The Arrow showed up in Central City to follow up a lead on a crime that happened in Starling City, and wound up helping the Flash with a metahuman problem. I imagine tonight's Arrow episode will basically be "Barry goes to Starling City to return the favor".

Mr Mole
12-03-2014, 08:48 AM
About my only gripe about this episode is that I had trouble suspending my disbelief when Ollie explained straight-faced to Team Flash that his identity was a closely guarded secret known to only a few... Ummm... Seriously? I need to put a list together of the people who know Ollie's the Arrow (and who haven't had their necks snapped), but I imagine it's gotta be in the dozens by now.

EDIT: Here's what I have so far.

Nyssa al Ghul
Barry Allen
Helena Bertinelli
Sebastian Blood (deceased*)
John Diggle
Roy Harper
Laurel Lance
Sara Lance (deceased)
Malcolm Merlyn (temporarily deceased, but got better)
Tommy Merlyn (deceased)
Lyla Michaels
Moira Queen (deceased)
Cisco Ramon
Isabel Rochev (deceased)
Felicity Smoak
Caitlin Snow
Count Vertigo (deceased)
Amanda Waller
Harrison Wells
Joe West
Slade Wilson



That's off the top of my head and I probably overlooked someone.

You can pretty safely add Ra's al Ghul to that list, along with assorted members of the League of Assassins... And whoever Waller may've decided has a need to know, but she likes to hold all the cards, so I suspect that's a short list.

* While we all saw him stabbed in the chest and apparently die and lie lifeless on his desk, his death is later reported as "unconfirmed," making me wonder why there would be any doubt... Unless no body was recovered.

Kyle
12-03-2014, 09:18 AM
Do Lawton and Nyssa know Oliver's identity?

It's probably safe to say that Quentin Lance knows, but prefers to pretend that he doesn't.

Mr Mole
12-03-2014, 09:28 AM
Do Lawton and Nyssa know Oliver's identity?

It's probably safe to say that Quentin Lance knows, but prefers to pretend that he doesn't.

Hmmm... I need to recheck Lawton... Yeah, I was remembering a scene wrong... Took Lawton off the list...

Nyssa's visited the Arrowcave and chatted up the team, Ollie included. If there's any doubt in your mind, watch episode 3x03.

http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/arrow-20.jpeg?w=420


It's probably safe to say that Quentin Lance knows, but prefers to pretend that he doesn't.
I suspect you're correct, but I'll wait until it's official before adding him to the list.

Bladewind
12-03-2014, 09:34 AM
It's technically a two-parter. The Arrow showed up in Central City to follow up a lead on a crime that happened in Starling City, and wound up helping the Flash with a metahuman problem. I imagine tonight's Arrow episode will basically be "Barry goes to Starling City to return the favor".

Thanks. Guess I`m streaming to watch them in order...

Horsenhero
12-03-2014, 08:11 PM
It was worth doing it in order. They were fun episodes.

Rainbow Raider was a hoot. Captain Boomerang was something he's rarely portrayed as in the comics... scary dangerous. I already want him to return.

Ares
12-03-2014, 08:51 PM
The only thing I didn't really care for was the now trite "The police are forming a task force to deal with the superhero" issue they've come up with. My only hope is that they drop that after a few episodes due to the Flash's more openly heroic nature, as well as more public metahuman activity where he visibly saves people. I got my fill of 'hero is mistrusted by the police' in Arrow, and Man of Steel, and the Dark Knight saga, and the Spider-Man movies, etc.

I will say its nice to see a hero who actually enjoys being a hero and likes helping people, rather than some brooding, angsting, morose jerk who whines about how terrible his life is, having superpowers that force him to do good because of the responsibility.

Also looking forward to the next couple of episodes. Reverse Flash next episode and maybe Firestorm? Awesome. I also don't know that we can still rule out any of the two major suspects as Zoom, given time travel and what not, but it'll be cool to see a superspeed duel on this show.

saint_matthew
12-03-2014, 09:02 PM
No I was wrong, the new episode of the Arrow is the best episode of the Flash yet.... Because Barry tells of Oliver for being an arse.

Oh it felt so good to see that

EDIT: Having said that, how the hell does the Arrow cave not have a security system.

Horsenhero
12-03-2014, 11:22 PM
I will say, Barry's little speech about how Oliver Queen can still inspire people "but not as the Arrow, that guy's a douche" made me laugh.

I also liked the Firestorm sighting. Since it happened outside the accelerator tunnel, I'm interested to find out what Ronnie has been doing. I'm assuming the creators have kept Firestorm's ability to phase through matter to explain his being out and about. I'm also going to take a stab in the dark to say that he won't have his powers fully under control until he merges with Professor Stein.

Overall I give the crossover episodes two thumbs up (one red, one green).

Yeoman
12-03-2014, 11:57 PM
EDIT: Having said that, how the hell does the Arrow cave not have a security system.

Like many players with any years of experience, they have figured that no mater what security system they have, whether or not anyone gets in is up to the GM, so why bother spending the points on one.

saint_matthew
12-04-2014, 03:24 AM
I will say, Barry's little speech about how Oliver Queen can still inspire people "but not as the Arrow, that guy's a douche" made me laugh.

For me it was Felicity loosing her shirt, Barry realizing he's trying to pat down her boobs & Cisco's reaction. This is EXACTLY what I was looking for when I was saying the characters needed to stop speaking in expositionary dialogue & present some personality. That element has improved in leaps and bounds as The Flash has progressed.


I also liked the Firestorm sighting. Since it happened outside the accelerator tunnel, I'm interested to find out what Ronnie has been doing. I'm assuming the creators have kept Firestorm's ability to phase through matter to explain his being out and about.

That's certainly one way, but you are missing the more obvious way. His body was converted to energy, which joined the energy cascade & then was blasted into the atmosphere when the unit went critical, where he then put himself back together.

saint_matthew
12-04-2014, 03:33 AM
Hey did any of you notice that Eddie (the cop)'s full name is Eddie Thawne & Caitlin's full name is Caitlin Snow.... And that Cisco full name is Cisco Ramon?

Or in other words: The second Reverse Flash (possibly), Killer Frost & Vibe.

Totally didn't notice that until just now. I must be getting slow in my old age.

Edit: Also there is this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cM55Q7HOY8&feature=player_embedded

So this is in 5 days time & then it goes on hiatus for a 42 days & starts back up at the end of January.

Bladewind
12-04-2014, 06:26 AM
Hey did any of you notice that Eddie (the cop)'s full name is Eddie Thawne & Caitlin's full name is Caitlin Snow.... And that Cisco full name is Cisco Ramon?

Or in other words: The second Reverse Flash (possibly), Killer Frost & Vibe.

Totally didn't notice that until just now. I must be getting slow in my old age.



lol

It`s been mentionned a few times throughout the thread. :cool:

As for the mid-season finale, I love that they have the read eyes and especially love the fact that something that started in the pilot is going to see what looks like major movement by mid-season...

Mr Mole
12-04-2014, 07:28 AM
Hey did any of you notice that Eddie (the cop)'s full name is Eddie Thawne & Caitlin's full name is Caitlin Snow.... And that Cisco full name is Cisco Ramon?

Or in other words: The second Reverse Flash (possibly), Killer Frost & Vibe.

Yessir, I did notice back in the first episode. :cool:

badpenny
12-04-2014, 07:33 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Wells namedropping Batman. It's about time that WB puts their characters into the same universe--especially since they don't have the problem of Marvel's properties scattered across differing (and competing) movie studios.

Ares
12-04-2014, 08:06 AM
Supposedly they can't actually use Superman or Batman in the show due to the movies coming out, for whatever stupid reason. Much like how the JLU cartoon couldn't use Aquaman villains or Aquaman after a certain point or the Batman villains due to the Aquaman series they were supposedly working on, as well as The Batman animated series.

Which always was weird to me. WB owns those characters and the studios working on them. Why in the hell is there a conflict with them using as many heroes as they want for as many shows as they want?

savijmuhdrox
12-04-2014, 10:19 AM
My favorite part of the cross-over was whenever anyone first meets Barry.. like Diggle and his Belly Burger fries going all over the place and then he just stands there incredulous for the rest of the scene..

"Do you think he does everything fast? like go to the bathroom?"

LOL. Get over it, Dig!

Horsenhero
12-04-2014, 11:07 AM
Supposedly they can't actually use Superman or Batman in the show due to the movies coming out, for whatever stupid reason. Much like how the JLU cartoon couldn't use Aquaman villains or Aquaman after a certain point or the Batman villains due to the Aquaman series they were supposedly working on, as well as The Batman animated series.

Which always was weird to me. WB owns those characters and the studios working on them. Why in the hell is there a conflict with them using as many heroes as they want for as many shows as they want?

This could actually be a trickier question than it sounds like, since several of the production companies involved with DC properties are actually subcontractors, not directly owned entities. There could be production agreements that limit the amount of "editorial input" parent company executives have over the production executives and in order to keep the showrunners from going hog wild, the "use" contracts as they apply to DC properties may have been limited intentionally, especially since Fox has a licensed DC property currently on its schedule and their people might have insisted on "no Batman", just as Snyder and the executive producers of the movies could have insisted on "no Superman".

Since that part of the process is more about lawyers and executives rather than creators, it's possible the showrunners for Flash and Arrow (even Greg Berlanti) don't have a complete understanding of the negotiations that took place to get all these properties in production simultaneously. What I am sure of, is that it's actually a good thing. One of the common complaints you see and hear about Warner is that they fall back on Batman and Superman too often in developing projects for television and film and this arrangement forces the writers/directors/showrunners for Arrow and Flash to avoid that. These properties have plenty of places to go in the DCU, but constantly reminding viewers that their primary protagonists aren't actually the "coolest kids on the block" isn't one of those places.

While it may put me in the minority, I think that's awesome. Let Flash and Arrow introduce the Suicide Squad, Firestorm, Arsenal, Black Canary, Huntress and others to the public in a way Warner has failed to do with their movies. They can capitolize at the theater later. A perfect example of this is the Suicide Squad movie, which has got no script or director, but does have Will Smith as Deadshot, Tom Hardy as Rick Flagg, Margot Robie as Harley Quinn and Jared Leto as the Joker. Without having introduced the Squad on Arrow first, I don't think this would've happened.

Bladewind
12-04-2014, 11:20 AM
What I am sure of, is that it's actually a good thing. One of the common complaints you see and hear about Warner is that they fall back on Batman and Superman too often in developing projects for television and film and this arrangement forces the writers/directors/showrunners for Arrow and Flash to avoid that. These properties have plenty of places to go in the DCU, but constantly reminding viewers that their primary protagonists aren't actually the "coolest kids on the block" isn't one of those places.


This. Totally agree.

Although my wardrobe says otherwise, I`m actually maxed ou on my Superman and Batman tolerance...

saint_matthew
12-04-2014, 03:24 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Wells namedropping Batman.

Oh you mean when he says "that man" & it sounds like he said "Batman"

badpenny
12-04-2014, 03:56 PM
Oh you mean when he says "that man" & it sounds like he said "Batman"

I replayed that five times and it sounds like "Batman." But it does make better sense for it to be "that man" since Wells is talking about Ollie.:confused:

Wishful thinking I guess.

Ares
12-04-2014, 04:06 PM
I do agree that I prefer them focusing on non-Superman/Batman stuff. I just still wish Superman and Batman existed in this universe publicly, and could make the occasional guest appearance. Those two pretty much define the DCU, and having them show up would be fun. Granted, I would prefer if they focused on other heroes as well, and would love to see a classic Captain Marvel show up on the Flash. I can just see the STAR Lab team trying to figure out Cap's powers and none of them being satisfied with 'It's magic'.

Mr Mole
12-04-2014, 04:51 PM
I'm currently content not having Batman or Superman ever appearing or even coming up in conversation on either Arrow or Flash. The Arrowverse is most definitely not the same DCU(s) I grew up with... And that's okay. I'm happy to have them give their own interpretation of iconic DC heroes. It's been a mixed bag so far, but they seem to be headed in the right direction to connect with the traits that made those characters "heroes" to me over the years. Keeping the big guns out of the picture for the time being makes sense to me. It's not like you had Batman or Superman popping up every issue in Flash and Green Arrow comics back in the day.

Bladewind
12-04-2014, 06:18 PM
Does Wells referring to Girder as "a man of steel| count as a Supes reference?:rolleyes:

Bladewind
12-04-2014, 06:36 PM
I don't follow Arrow, but obviously watched this one even if it was a day later...

Question: Does Arrow always start out with a voice over like the Flash? And are the scores of the two shows that similar?

Ares
12-04-2014, 06:54 PM
Arrow has had a voice over intro since day one, so it's the Flash following the formula.

Kyle
12-04-2014, 07:00 PM
The voice over on 'Arrow' doesn't change from episode to episode. If I remember correctly, there were a few episodes into season two before the first change, and season three started with a new one.

Ares
12-04-2014, 07:34 PM
Ah, right. Arrow just uses a standard voice over intro with the credits, same as the Flash, but the Flash is the only one to bookend the show with Barry giving his own thoughts on things.