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savijmuhdrox
09-23-2014, 06:25 AM
So I watched this last night.. and it was.. different.

I'm not sure what kind of beast it will be.. but it won't be able to get by on easter eggs alone..

and Robin Lord Taylor was just great as the Penguin.. almost the highlight of the show for now.. which would be great in its own right.. how to be a crime lord in Gotham..

Goldar
09-23-2014, 06:41 AM
I popped in-and-out of it, so really didn't get a great handle on it, but it seems ok.

Only not really a "superhero" show, but the "before-hand" life of Commissioner Gordon before he had the title. If they are not careful, this could get tedious and boring REAL quickly and become just another "detective/police drama".

I wonder if any superpowered villains or heroes will appear?

saint_matthew
09-23-2014, 06:52 AM
So I watched this last night.. and it was.. different.

Actually I'm going to disagree with you on this point, it was in no way different. It was a police procedural without the procedural, and where you don't care about the police. Gotham is "Law and Order: Shitty Lighting Division" & honestly that's about it.

Its not a common man story, there are no interesting characters whose adventures I want to hear about & no interesting background plot.... An in all honesty I don't see this lasting & this is from someone who enjoys the heck out of both superhero comics and police procedurals & this product isn't either of these things while pretending to be both.

In a universe where WB thinks that every adaptation of a DC property for the big or small screen needs to be turned into Batman, they've apparently decided the one franchise that should be Batman, Batman, should contain no Batman.

This honestly would have been better had they just ripped off Gotham Central.

digitalangel
09-23-2014, 07:57 AM
It has potential to be good, but I think the odds are in favor of it not lasting more than a season or two. They have enough stories to play with for a while with all the villians and minor characters around Gotham to play off of and showing the backstory of all of them too. If it turns into just another cop show, I do think it will last. I think it will really be the villains who have any chance of keeping the show interesting almost as more of a show centered around Gotham's darker characters. I don't see Bruce being more than a background character unless it lasts several seasons to see him get older and start training to eventually be Batman.

The team that did Smallville, had originally pitched the idea with Batman's backstory and got shot down before they came back with Smallville. It sounds like someone with the network went "well Smallville had a good run, maybe we should go ahead with that Batman backstory idea after all."

Kyle
09-23-2014, 09:10 AM
I didn't think it was bad, but nothing about the show really grabbed me.

Gordon and Bullock were both fine, but I found all the 'Muppet Babies' versions of Batman's rogues gallery to be off-putting. It's like the show runners saw the rapidly declining viewership on 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.', assumed it was due to the lack of Marvel characters cameoing, and decided to go the exact opposite direction. We obviously haven't seen the last of the Penguin, or Riddler, or Catwoman, but I wonder how they're going to keep shoehorning in Poison Ivy.

At least the show looked good. I liked the sort of anachronistic appearance of everything. The mismatch of technology and fashion reminded me 'Batman: The Animated Series'. Or 'Archer'!

Bladewind
09-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Actually I'm going to disagree with you on this point, it was in no way different. It was a police procedural without the procedural, and where you don't care about the police. Gotham is "Law and Order: Shitty Lighting Division" & honestly that's about it.


Precisely the reaction I expected you to have. That`s not meant as dig at all. And not to suggest you are predictable.

And, I totally agree.

Batman`s backstory (if you`re trying to go Smallville in terms of premise) doesn`t work. Batman`s backstory, after his parents are murdered is boring. That`s why there was interest in a retcon to create Superboy and then variants of a kid growing up with the ability to juggle tanks.

Watching Bruce train as a martial artist is dull. Him learning to be a detective? Unless they throw mysteries for him to solve also dull. And if they go that route I don`t see credibility shining through.

And I still don`t get why Gordon went to Wayne for permission. Or Pennyworth raisng his voice when Bruce was on the roof? WTF?

Like other sentiment, I was more interested in Penguin. Jada Pinkett wasn't horrible in her role, although I have not figured out what it is yet...

Nope, don`t see it lasting.

Arthur Eld
09-23-2014, 09:37 AM
This will probably get three seasons, maybe more (once you get four, you tend to get more).

I liked it, and think it has room to grow. To me, Donal Logue was a perfect choice to play Bullock. And I like that they made young Bruce kinda creepy. The whole perspicacious child thing gets overused in media, I feel, but if fits anyone, its the boy who will become the World's Greatest Detective.

I also liked they made Alfred distinct, not as friendly or soft as Michael Caine's parental take on it. For one thing, it implies Alfred has to grow to accept his role as a parent, and it harkens back to Alfred possibly having a darker, military background.

kingk
09-23-2014, 12:51 PM
I really don't see this lasting, because as Saint Matthew said, it's trying to be Batman without Batman, and the police elements aren't enough to hold it. But first the highlights: Oswald Cobblepot is fantastic, gruff Alfred was an interesting and different take, Bullock looks the part, and Gordon looks like he could make a great Gordon if he starts doing better.

My problems start with the murder. It felt underwhelming. I know its been done a dozen times, and that its hard to come up with a new interpretation, and that Bruce isn't the focus of this show, but still. How about maybe we don't see it right away, but rather once Gordon is called to the scene we see him recreate the crime in his mind? To show he's a good detective? Then they realize who the bodies are and they find Bruce? Just an idea.

After that, we get into the territory where we just have cameo appearances for everyone to no avail. Kyle suggested that they were trying to do the opposite of Agents of SHIELD, which suffered from no comic book villains by shoehorning them in everywhere, but the problem is the same: We can't see the interesting versions of these characters. Edward Nygma as lab tech is better than having a totally generic villain, but we still can't get Edward Nygma as Riddler.

The dialogue was also really off-putting to me. Either everyone spoke in speeches, or they used really strange expressions that took me out of the scene to wonder exactly what it was they were saying. The former is problematic because everyone seems to already know how important and symbolic they and these events are (like when Gordon went to talk to Bruce Wayne), which annoys me because I hate when heroes are apparently pre-destined instead of making a choice themselves. On a meta-level, of course Bruce is pre-destined to become Batman, unless the show tries to throw us for a really radical spanner but they won't, but the job of the show is to make us believe it as he does it, rather than just rely on our goodwill that it will happen.

I also have problems with the pacing of the plot and all the threads thrown up in the air. I just don't see this show getting enough seasons to have Bruce grow or any of the villains reaching a point where they are interesting and worth seeing. I suppose the one thing the show might do is have them put on costumes before Bruce, and go the route of "Batman is needed to stop the supervillains" instead of "Batman triggers the supervillains," but I hope they don't.

I'm realizing what might be an interesting approach, but that they probably aren't planning on doing, is having each season be self-contained and letting several years pass in-between. First season is Gordon's first months/year in Gotham, and covers the Wayne murder. Next season could be 2-3 years later, and address some different issue. Then another 2-3 year jumps between seasons (allowing Gordon to grow a stash and Bruce to be old enough to be interesting), and we can hit Batman. They won't do that though.

All that being said, I thought pretty poorly of Agents of SHIELD and Arrow when they started, and while I still am at best ambivalent about the former, the latter has become one of my favorite shows, so I'll give Gotham more time before I jump ship entirely. But I'm really more excited for Flash.

Ares
09-23-2014, 01:22 PM
Batman`s backstory (if you`re trying to go Smallville in terms of premise) doesn`t work. Batman`s backstory, after his parents are murdered is boring. That`s why there was interest in a retcon to create Superboy and then variants of a kid growing up with the ability to juggle tanks.

Watching Bruce train as a martial artist is dull. Him learning to be a detective? Unless they throw mysteries for him to solve also dull. And if they go that route I don`t see credibility shining through.

Conversely, I think the idea of Bruce Wayne training to be Batman actually holds a lot of promise. Watching Bruce wander the world, coming across different teachers in different locations, seeing the mistakes he made along the way, developing his moral code, that I think has a lot of promise, and would actually work for setting up other characters in the DCU. Plus the notion of Bruce trying to do all this while not letting it slip what he's up to, necessitating false identities, secret trips, etc. There was some decent stuff in an old 'Untold Tales of Batman' story where we see Bruce initially want to get into law enforcement, but decided not to when the conflicts between what is right and what is legal turned him towards vigilantism.

A 'young Bruce Wayne' series always made more sense to me than a 'young Clark Kent' series, unless said series decided to involve the Legion of Superheroes traveling to the past to each take turns secretly mentoring Clark and preparing him for his role as Superman. Because Clark's life before he put the costume on was boring. He was the epitome of the average guy and he did everything to hide his powers. It's why Smallville had to change so much of the mythos and throw in all of these Kryptonite monsters and then introduce the Justice League and other heroes and villains before he put on his costume, because otherwise it would have just been Clark finishing highschool, doing some soul searching, and then getting into journalism before becoming a superhero.

Bruce Wayne has close to a decade of him traveling the world training to be the greatest crime fighter in history, mastering a multitude of disciplines, making contacts, building his code of conduct, possibly while tracking down the man that killed his parents, so on and so forth. There's a lot of cool potential there.

Sadly, it doesn't sound like Gotham is the series for it, as a 'Gotham City Before Batman' only really works if you've got a solid cast and really make it just about the cops and how things in the city are getting worse, and then show Batman as this dark, unknown factor that initially freaks the police out too. Show us Batman from the cops perspective rather than from Bruce Wayne's perspective.

ghostman76
09-23-2014, 01:25 PM
But I'm really more excited for Flash.


Yep.

Horsenhero
09-23-2014, 01:35 PM
My biggest problem with the show is the pacing. I realize there's a lot of ground already covered in the Bat-mythos and the showrunners are just figuring out exactly what the show is going to be, but it was just too busy. There was no time for any sort of background on anything or anyone and personally, I would've preferred they left the Wayne's murders out of it. This is primarily Jim Gordon's story. Jim Gordon's story doesn't begin with the Wayne murders. Gotham's story doesn't begin with the Wayne murders.

That being said, the best scene in the show (which followed one of the worst) was the scene with Carmine Falcone. At least the Falcone character shows some spark. He was both classy and menacing, exactly how a fictional crimelord should be.

Overall, unless the plots get richer and they disregard some of the meaningless cameos for the sake of some more depth in the "plot du jour", I have fairly low expectations for the shows' survival.

badpenny
09-23-2014, 03:00 PM
OMG, that sucked rotten eggs harrrd. Such lazy writing, with zero character development; there's not one character I give a rat's @$$ about.

I wouldn't wish anyone to be out of work, but I won't be watching the show.

greycrusader
09-23-2014, 05:55 PM
Conversely, I think the idea of Bruce Wayne training to be Batman actually holds a lot of promise. Watching Bruce wander the world, coming across different teachers in different locations, seeing the mistakes he made along the way, developing his moral code, that I think has a lot of promise, and would actually work for setting up other characters in the DCU. Plus the notion of Bruce trying to do all this while not letting it slip what he's up to, necessitating false identities, secret trips, etc. There was some decent stuff in an old 'Untold Tales of Batman' story where we see Bruce initially want to get into law enforcement, but decided not to when the conflicts between what is right and what is legal turned him towards vigilantism.

A 'young Bruce Wayne' series always made more sense to me than a 'young Clark Kent' series, unless said series decided to involve the Legion of Superheroes traveling to the past to each take turns secretly mentoring Clark and preparing him for his role as Superman. Because Clark's life before he put the costume on was boring. He was the epitome of the average guy and he did everything to hide his powers. It's why Smallville had to change so much of the mythos and throw in all of these Kryptonite monsters and then introduce the Justice League and other heroes and villains before he put on his costume, because otherwise it would have just been Clark finishing highschool, doing some soul searching, and then getting into journalism before becoming a superhero.

Bruce Wayne has close to a decade of him traveling the world training to be the greatest crime fighter in history, mastering a multitude of disciplines, making contacts, building his code of conduct, possibly while tracking down the man that killed his parents, so on and so forth. There's a lot of cool potential there.

Sadly, it doesn't sound like Gotham is the series for it, as a 'Gotham City Before Batman' only really works if you've got a solid cast and really make it just about the cops and how things in the city are getting worse, and then show Batman as this dark, unknown factor that initially freaks the police out too. Show us Batman from the cops perspective rather than from Bruce Wayne's perspective.

Absolutely my sentiments. A television show following the adventures of a boy trying to turn himself into a hero-into BATMAN? That would be interesting-especially if the program acknowledged (however obliquely) the elder JSA heroes-with young Bruce Wayne seeking them out, alternately inspired and discouraged by them (depending on the circumstances); Bruce going on quests, being mentored by Alfred, joining the circus and learning acrobatic skills from the Flying Graysons, encountering a mysterious, spit-curled super-strong boy who keeps beating him to the punch (and vowing to someday best him), and the like..the biggest issue would be there couldn't actually be much globe-trotting on a television budget.

All my best.

Bladewind
09-23-2014, 07:13 PM
Conversely, I think the idea of Bruce Wayne training to be Batman actually holds a lot of promise. Watching Bruce wander the world, coming across different teachers in different locations, seeing the mistakes he made along the way, developing his moral code, that I think has a lot of promise, and would actually work for setting up other characters in the DCU. Plus the notion of Bruce trying to do all this while not letting it slip what he's up to, necessitating false identities, secret trips, etc. There was some decent stuff in an old 'Untold Tales of Batman' story where we see Bruce initially want to get into law enforcement, but decided not to when the conflicts between what is right and what is legal turned him towards vigilantism.

A 'young Bruce Wayne' series always made more sense to me than a 'young Clark Kent' series, unless said series decided to involve the Legion of Superheroes traveling to the past to each take turns secretly mentoring Clark and preparing him for his role as Superman. Because Clark's life before he put the costume on was boring. He was the epitome of the average guy and he did everything to hide his powers. It's why Smallville had to change so much of the mythos and throw in all of these Kryptonite monsters and then introduce the Justice League and other heroes and villains before he put on his costume, because otherwise it would have just been Clark finishing highschool, doing some soul searching, and then getting into journalism before becoming a superhero.

Bruce Wayne has close to a decade of him traveling the world training to be the greatest crime fighter in history, mastering a multitude of disciplines, making contacts, building his code of conduct, possibly while tracking down the man that killed his parents, so on and so forth. There's a lot of cool potential there.

Sadly, it doesn't sound like Gotham is the series for it, as a 'Gotham City Before Batman' only really works if you've got a solid cast and really make it just about the cops and how things in the city are getting worse, and then show Batman as this dark, unknown factor that initially freaks the police out too. Show us Batman from the cops perspective rather than from Bruce Wayne's perspective.

Smallville (to me) was more of an alternate Superman as Superboy, and ultimately just another take on what might have been. The comics of Superboy (original ones that is) are another, as is he was normal, he hid his powers and John Kent told him to keep it a secret and died for no good reason because of it...

Funny. I think Clark learning about his powers and coping is more interesting than Bruce accumulating the skills... even if I do see and agree with the points you made about Smallville to one extent or another. It's Clark trying too be normal that I find fun. I never really got the notion for Bats or Supes that their Rogues show up after they start... What? There were no supervillains around until superheroes showed up?
Which is why I do like the concept of Gotham... let's see the Rogues develop and be active before the Bat...

But unless you want to modernize Kung Fu the Legend Continues I just don't get how Bruce training can be more interesting to watch than paint peel... Okay, I'm exaggerating greatly. But still, I do prefer a scene in an elseworlds series (Byrne's Generations) where we see Wayne (before Bats) running through a field and referencing in a thought bubble that he hoped plying football (paraphrasing heavily) was going to pay off...

Yeoman
09-23-2014, 09:47 PM
Actually... watching it... I'm getting the vibe this was supposed to be Gotham Central, and then got rewritten and scenes added to make it a prequel.

We've got Montoya and Allen, who shouldn't be contemporaries of Gordon, an older Bullock, implications that Montoya and Gordon's fiancee were involved at some point. All of it just screams the lead of this wasn't supposed to be Gordon to me. I'm also pretty sure one of the leads in Gotham Central was Ex-military and looks a lot like Gordon does here.

saint_matthew
09-23-2014, 10:16 PM
Actually... watching it... I'm getting the vibe this was supposed to be Gotham Central, and then got rewritten and scenes added to make it a prequel.

Entirely possible given they re-released Gotham central issue 1 as a precursor to Gotham.

Kyle
09-23-2014, 10:46 PM
Actually... watching it... I'm getting the vibe this was supposed to be Gotham Central, and then got rewritten and scenes added to make it a prequel.
There's definitely elements of GOTHAM CENTRAL in the mix, but it's hard to blame them, because GOTHAM CENTRAL was so damn good. The only thing bad about GOTHAM CENTRAL was too much Batman. Still, I doubt they would have been able to sell the show to a network with anyone other than Gordan as the main character. No one's going to tune in to see the on-going adventures of Marcus Driver.


implications that Montoya and Gordon's fiancee were involved at some point.
That bit kinda bugged me. I really hope that whatever secret Montoya is holding over Barbara's head is something other than that they used to date. It's 2014 -- or whatever year it's supposed to be in the show where people still dress like that but also have cell phones -- the idea of a person being attracted to both sexes shouldn't be that scandalous.

saint_matthew
09-24-2014, 12:37 AM
There's definitely elements of GOTHAM CENTRAL in the mix, but it's hard to blame them, because GOTHAM CENTRAL was so damn good. The only thing bad about GOTHAM CENTRAL was too much Batman.

Really? I always thought it hit on just the right amount of Batman, but to each their own.

Kyle
09-24-2014, 01:10 AM
It seemed to me that every story ended with Batman swooping in to save the day. Would have been nice if the MCU were able to occasionally able to chalk up a solid win without Batman having to give them clues or just straight up solve the crime for them. The MCU are supposed to be the best of the best of what the GCPD has to offer; I'm not expecting them to take on Killer Croc or Clayface or Ra's al Ghul, but a significant number of Batman's rogues are skinny dudes with some sort of obsession. Is Bruce Wayne really the only dude smart enough to figure out what the Riddler has going on? The Riddler might be my favourite Batman villain, but c'mon, the dude leaves clues.

And I get the argument that if the police can handle Batman's villains, then why does Gotham need Batman. Leaving aside the question of whether Gotham actually does need Batman, I think the reverse is also worth asking: if only Batman is capable of solving Gotham's particular flavour of crime, then why even bother with having an elite unit of cops like the MCU?

The story which I found really frustrating was Red Ball, which was the one about the Joker assassinating municipal government officials. For whatever reason, I got it into my head early on in that story that it would be a great twist if it turned out it was actually a copycat, and the MCU detectives were the one to capture and stop him because Batman was thrown off the trail expecting it to be the real Joker. Of course, that's not what happened. It was the Joker, who somehow managed to murder a police lieutenant in an interrogation room and then stroll out of the HQ without anyone to stop him -- despite being an unarmed, skinny jackass -- and Batman saves the day. It was the least interesting resolution that story could possibly have had.

Regardless, GOTHAM CENTRAL is still great, and it's a shame it's readership was so low, because not only could it have run longer, but I imagine Rucka and Brubaker would have been able to mix up the formula of the book a bit more if they had better numbers.


Speaking of the Joker, though, the comedian in Fish Mooney's club; red herring or foreshadowing?

badpenny
09-24-2014, 05:08 AM
Speaking of the Joker, though, the comedian in Fish Mooney's club; red herring or foreshadowing?

My understanding is that in each episode there's going to be a tease/red-herring as to a possible Joker.

Bladewind
09-24-2014, 06:01 AM
My understanding is that in each episode there's going to be a tease/red-herring as to a possible Joker.


Now that`s a neat idea.

Yeoman
09-24-2014, 09:03 AM
That bit kinda bugged me. I really hope that whatever secret Montoya is holding over Barbara's head is something other than that they used to date. It's 2014 -- or whatever year it's supposed to be in the show where people still dress like that but also have cell phones -- the idea of a person being attracted to both sexes shouldn't be that scandalous.

I didn't get the impression she's holding that over her. Just that she knows her that well because they used to date.

savijmuhdrox
09-24-2014, 11:31 AM
The real draw for me is gonna be Penguin. I really hope we get to see the making of a crimelord.

The obvious comeuppance of Fish Mooney.. "Penguins eat Fish!!" Is sitting right there.

Kyle
09-24-2014, 06:52 PM
I didn't get the impression she's holding that over her. Just that she knows her that well because they used to date.

Maybe I'm reading something into it that isn't there, but based on Montoya's lines and Barbara's reaction, I got the impression that Gordon doesn't know she used to have a relationship with a woman and that she doesn't want him to know.

Yeoman
09-24-2014, 08:44 PM
Maybe I'm reading something into it that isn't there, but based on Montoya's lines and Barbara's reaction, I got the impression that Gordon doesn't know she used to have a relationship with a woman and that she doesn't want him to know.

Could be. I read it more that she's not as nice a person as Gordon thinks (Which is HILARIOUS, as IIRC, canon-wise it was Gordon that cheated on her), and that Montoya knows that.

Kyle
09-30-2014, 08:22 PM
The first episode did nothing for me, but the second was just straight-up bad. Donal Logue was still fun to watch, but the rest was contrived and tedious. I might check it out again if it starts to get some buzz, but I think I'm done for now.

Horsenhero
09-30-2014, 10:45 PM
I agree with the assessment. Too much time was spent on Penguin doing random stuff and the main plot was predictably dull. The corruption of the Gotham PD is so in your face, nobody even tries to pretend they're not crooked...yet Montoya and her partner keep rolling along on their quest to "bring down" the bad cops without even getting the same sort of warning that Gordon got.

Just sloppy from beginning to end.

saint_matthew
09-30-2014, 11:08 PM
The first episode did nothing for me, but the second was just straight-up bad.

I wouldn't know, I didn't even bother. The general premise didn't wow me, the first episode was just bad & had no real reason to exist.... For me that's three strikes. I'll usually give a show at least two episodes, but when I don't even care for the premise to start with I've got better things to do with my time. Just got back from a driving lesson & now am shopping for a car: Good times.

Bladewind
10-01-2014, 05:52 AM
The Penguin I found amusing, but that`s about it.

Essentially, this seems more to me the origin of the rogues than anything else, but that`s not the way I saw it billed.
About the only thing I like, is that we are starting to see why Oswald becomes a minor player in the grand scheme of things as opposed to something more influential.

But... yeah. The episode was just plain bad. Selina's - excuse me, Cat's - declaration to the officer near the end to get Gordon or she`d say he touched her.... yeah. Let`s give people ideas. I`m not naive people play that card all the time, but that was just... dumb.

Bladewind
10-07-2014, 08:11 AM
Anyone else thinking this is more an origin of the Penguin than anything else ?

kingk
10-07-2014, 09:26 AM
Agreed. Also, I found the idea of the Balloonman so bad it was good. Seriously, this is the first vigilante in Gotham City and we see Bruce is being partly inspired by him, so in Gotham canon, Balloonman begets Batman.

I really want to know where the writers came up with the idea for Balloonman. It was certainly novel, and sorta comic book-y, but really, how did they get together and propose that idea?

Bladewind
10-07-2014, 09:36 AM
certainly not from looking at this! (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Balloon_Man_(Earth-One))

And originally I had a "naaahhhhh" moment, but...

http://comicbook.com/2014/10/07/gotham-easter-eggs-and-dc-comics-references-in-the-balloonman/




This is an odd one, but when Lamond kills Lt. Cranston, his costume of choice resembles The Shadow, with the scarf over his mouth and the fedora hat. Since The Shadow is named Lamont Cranston in his day-to-day life, Lamond killing Cranston while wearing that outfit is...hard to imagine as a coincidence.

savijmuhdrox
10-07-2014, 02:37 PM
Balloon Man... lulz.

I kinda liked its zany, campy feeling. Didnt a lot of old school Batman villans have weird gimmicks?

If this guy is the first of many.. i'd be okay with that.

It feels like this show has a number of almost completely independent plots going on.. anything with the villains and criminals works.. the Bruce stuff is good as long as we get more Alfred... but the cop stuff, not so much.. hopefully Gordon finds his niche.. and Montoya just goes away..

For now, it hasnt lost me yet.

kingk
10-07-2014, 03:18 PM
http://comicbook.com/2014/10/07/gotham-easter-eggs-and-dc-comics-references-in-the-balloonman/

I thought it resembled the Shadow but only because I happened to know the Shadow. I doubted the writers had any knowledge of the character, but I didn't make the connection between Lamond and Cranston...

Thorpacolypse
10-07-2014, 08:18 PM
I'm been enjoying the show, mainly because my expectations for it were really low and it's exceeding them. I try not to think about it too hard and just enjoy the fact that after almost 40 years of reading comics, when the Supergirl pilot gets picked up (and it will), it will mean that every major TV network has a comic based show on it and I never thought I would see the day. And seeing a serious take on Gotham is long overdue.

I am really liking Donal Logue as Bullock and Robin Lord Taylor as Oswald Cobblepot. Not Jada Pinkett-Smith's character so much. It's uneven overall, but it's got potential. And as kingk said, the Balloonman was so bad it was good. I'd rather have seen Kite Man, but you can't have everything. ;)

Bladewind
10-14-2014, 11:53 AM
Well, don`t know if it was fatigue but last night`s ep really left me uninspired - I turned it off only fifteen minutes in.

Pinkett Smith`s character is boring me, and the focus on Penguin is already old... not to mention the use of what I assume was another vigilante (I assume because I tuned out...) so soon after balloon man...

I think I`ll be getting my updates from this thread here on in...

digitalangel
10-14-2014, 12:11 PM
Pinkett Smith`s character is boring me, and the focus on Penguin is already old... not to mention the use of what I assume was another vigilante (I assume because I tuned out...) so soon after balloon man...

Hitman actually, and heavily hinted at that Fish hired him to make hits on both sides to spark a gang war so she could try to come in and clean up the pieces afterwards.

I agree that it is moving fairly slow, but some of my favorite shows were slow in the first season building character development and relationships between characters. The only problem is that if you go too slow, you never make it to a second season.

They have put a lot of emphasis on Penguin, not sure that's bad, but I'll have to see what they do with it. The also started showing more of Bruce starting to be a detective looking for links between the events in last night's episode and his parent's death.

So far my impression of the show is a cross between a mob show, law and order: Gotham, and oh yeah there is some stuff going on over here with a kid that will turn into someone important in 10 years or so.

Bladewind
10-14-2014, 01:30 PM
K, that`s a little better than the impression I got before changing channels (I did catch that detective moment as I flipped channels...)

I also read the summary on Wikipedia... It`s really Fish that annoys me. I don`t disagree that the focus on Cobblepot is not a bad thing, just that there`s a lot of it. I do get a kick out of seeing him as trying to be a player but never getting passed the B team...

Meh, I probably will tune in again, but I certainly won`t go out of my way to do so...

digitalangel
10-14-2014, 02:07 PM
Meh, I probably will tune in again, but I certainly won`t go out of my way to do so...

Kinda how I am with it, just nothing else at that time slot I care about, so I've been giving it time. If Blacklist got moved back an hour, then I'd much rather watch it than Gotham based on what I've seen so far.

Kyle
10-14-2014, 02:57 PM
Hitman actually, and heavily hinted at that Fish hired him to make hits on both sides to spark a gang war so she could try to come in and clean up the pieces afterwards.

Was that what was going on? I had the show on in the background, so I wasn't giving it my full attention, but I got the impression that both mob bosses somehow managed to hire the same dude for different hits related to the same issue. At the end Penguin is able to warn Gordon that there's going to be another murder because he sees the boss that he's working for give the order to kill the mayor, right? Or maybe I missed something.

Also, what was the deal with the two singers Fish was hiring to seduce Falcone? At the end of the episode she has them fight to see which of them gets the job, and they both shrug and just start scrapping? Neither one even tried to back out of it.

digitalangel
10-14-2014, 03:07 PM
Penguin was behind the robbery, and then poisoned the guys that did it for him.

Penguin could have been behind the hitman, but until after the robbery where would he have had the funds to hire the guy? There was also the talk between Fish and Bullock about her always having a plan B. Both these things made me think that it was her that hired the hitman so that Maroni and Falcone would destroy each other and she could take over after the dust cleared.

Kyle
10-14-2014, 03:22 PM
Yeah, I got that Penguin was behind the robbery, but afterwards, when the mob boss who owns the restaurant -- Marroni? -- promotes him to manager, he also tells his lieutenant that he wants to get back at Falcone and orders a hit. Right after that, Penguin calls Gordon to inform him there's going to be another killing that night, and Gordon works out that it's going to be the mayor.

If Fish was the one paying the hitman, then how would Penguin know about it? Also, didn't she tell Bullock where to find the hitman?

Maybe I should have paid more attention, because I'm obviously missing something. That's probably not going to happen, though.

Bladewind
10-21-2014, 06:45 AM
Despite myself, I caught a bit of last noght's ep.

Cute idea with the drug... especially the reference to the more refined version. I think they need to drop the character of Bruce though. If this about Gotham`s criminal crazies debuting, they need to focus on them and not have Bruce in the background...

digitalangel
10-21-2014, 07:08 AM
I think that as the show goes on Bruce's character will get a bigger role, but they are trying to show his growth from a kid obsessed with his parents murder to something more. Last night's episode definately gives them opportunities to eventually have Bruce as he gets old enough to have any influence within Wayne Enterprises or sooner through Alfred (as Bruce's guardian and probably the holder of the trust that all of the assets are part of) starting to deal with the corruption within the company.

Last night's episode was a good nod to Bane eventualy coming to be, but also set it up so that they have time to play with other character's first.

The show still doesn't have me excited about it, but has left me hopeful for what it might grow into.

savijmuhdrox
10-21-2014, 07:35 AM
The show keeps growing on me, little by little.

I like how the villains and plots are kinda silly and morbid.. balloon man? hilarious, but still deadly. it just seems to fit in with the older Batman villains or stories. I don't need it to be all dark and gritty.. it can be its own thing.

and i think as the season goes on, we'll see what works (Penguin, Harvey Bullock) and what needs to go (Gordon's wife) and as long as we get some easter eggs (Viper --> Venom, suh-weet) thrown in; that will just serve to season the broth.

and i actually liked some of the one-liners last night..

"Do not vex me, mortal!"

"Guy was drinking milk like there ain't no more cows"

"Yeah, and what's altrusim?!?" (the look on Gordon's face was hilarious.)

as for the Bruce stuff... that's still middle of the road to me.. i enjoy Alfred, and i would like to see Bruce keep surprising everyone with his brains.. but i don't know if it would be entertaining..

Bladewind
11-11-2014, 06:14 AM
So I had nothing better to do and watched last night... almost sorry I missed the episode with Zsazz (sp?)... seems there was some character development that was built on last night had added some more interesting interaction with Bullock and Gordon...

Bruce`s part didn`t seem tacked on as in previous episodes (that I`ve watched). I was also pleased (cheeze or not) with the notion that the death of the Waynes kinda equated with the death of decency in Gotham and that`s why the nutters are coming out of the woodwork...

I do like this version of Alfred. Instilling a healthy sense of "deserving" a response and okay to feel good about it. Now to instill and encourage a sense of right and wrong and not just beat-anyone-who-disses-you attitude....

And Bullock referring to Gordon as an Asshat. Cute.

Horsenhero
11-11-2014, 09:13 AM
The show is beginning to find its identity and surprisingly that identity seems to actually revolve around Gordon, Cobblepot and to lesser extents Mooney and Bullock. I like the fact that during the confrontation with Zsasz in the police station, the Captain was not going to let Gordon stand alone, even though she would likely have died. Bullock deciding to stand and fight because both he and Gordon were doomed anyway was nice.

And oh my god does Bullock like big girls. Bullocks "final" fling with the Pink Pearl sized prostitute cracked me up.

The show isn't quite good yet, but it's getting better as the writers get a better feel for the characters and some of the proto-"crazy gotham villains" are interesting, though last night's "fight club" didn't make a heap of sense. Still, it was good to shine a light on how Gordon's decision to be a hardass about everything is both helpful and a hindrance to his success as a cop.

Much like Arrow season 1, the show is still feeling its way toward its identity, but it's better than SHIELD was at this point.

Bladewind
11-11-2014, 11:33 AM
Much like Arrow season 1, the show is still feeling its way toward its identity, but it's better than SHIELD was at this point.

Have to give it that.